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Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer February 7, 2009 4:35 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI March 26, 2009 3:08 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer March 26, 2009 4:57 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer March 26, 2009 5:02 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI March 26, 2009 10:16 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer March 26, 2009 11:29 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI March 26, 2009 11:40 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer March 27, 2009 2:34 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI March 29, 2009 2:22 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer March 30, 2009 1:20 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 None None April 10, 2009 6:21 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer April 12, 2009 11:41 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš April 14, 2009 9:40 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer April 14, 2009 11:56 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš April 16, 2009 6:36 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš April 21, 2009 5:34 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer April 21, 2009 7:50 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš April 22, 2009 1:35 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer April 25, 2009 7:00 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš June 9, 2009 1:57 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer June 9, 2009 12:01 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 gerald hemmers June 10, 2009 3:48 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Amine Bousta June 16, 2009 5:33 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Julio Camarero June 17, 2009 12:28 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Amine Bousta June 23, 2009 1:31 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Julio Camarero June 23, 2009 1:36 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Julio Camarero June 17, 2009 12:24 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 gerald hemmers June 23, 2009 4:43 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš July 30, 2009 8:56 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš July 30, 2009 9:27 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Julio Camarero August 4, 2009 9:29 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš August 4, 2009 9:44 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer August 24, 2009 10:50 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš August 25, 2009 1:04 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer August 25, 2009 1:24 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš September 11, 2009 12:04 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer September 11, 2009 12:39 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI October 15, 2009 3:21 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš October 15, 2009 10:59 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI October 17, 2009 4:47 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš October 18, 2009 11:26 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI October 18, 2009 12:53 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer October 21, 2009 2:23 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Marco Bolzan October 21, 2009 3:20 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer October 22, 2009 4:50 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Marco Bolzan October 22, 2009 5:28 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer October 22, 2009 5:33 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Marco Bolzan October 22, 2009 5:57 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš October 22, 2009 7:03 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer October 23, 2009 2:36 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Marco Bolzan October 22, 2009 8:23 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš October 22, 2009 10:56 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš October 22, 2009 5:42 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Milan Jaroš October 18, 2009 1:59 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Luis Rodríguez Fernández January 21, 2010 1:29 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI January 25, 2010 5:57 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer January 25, 2010 11:44 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Sébastien Meunier January 26, 2010 3:24 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI January 26, 2010 5:15 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Luis Rodríguez Fernández January 27, 2010 9:01 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Kyrre Myrbostad January 29, 2010 2:13 PM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Jorge Ferrer February 8, 2010 4:03 AM
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3 Boubker TAGNAOUTI February 19, 2010 6:35 AM
Jorge Ferrer
Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
February 7, 2009 4:35 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Boubker and all,

Now that 5.2 has been released it's time to plan the next release. Working on accessibility improvements is an important item in the roadmap and I've been assign the task of coordinating it. So to start with I'd like to know the opinion of all of you accessibility experts listening regarding what we should work on next. In other words:

What are in your opinion the most important aspects we should fix or improve next to increase Liferay Portal's accessibility?
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 26, 2009 3:08 AM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hi Jorge, hi everybody,

I suggest to work in three steps :



  • we have to fix the xhtml and css validation errors (liferay should be more compliant with the standards)
  • improve the accessibility to be conform with wcag 2.0 specifications at level AA.
  • adding features (keyboard shortcuts mechanism based on a convention, theme personalization portlet for partially-sighted person, Accessibility glossary portlet, and more).



For my part, i am working to fix ampersand validation errors and i am facing an issue with javascript and css compressor (MinifierUtil.java) : it removes the CDATA comments when it proceeds.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 26, 2009 4:57 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Boubker,

The plan looks good to me. Probably the second point would have to be broken down in parts, since its a very broad goal. Currently there are several portlets that meet the AA criteria for anonymous users. So IMO the first task would be to extend this to all the significant core portlets.

The second task would be to achieve AA accessibility for registered users for collaboration portlets. The order that I have in mind is: Message Boards, Wiki, Comments, Wall, ...
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 26, 2009 5:02 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Regarding the XHTML validation errors, Nate has been doing quite a few changes. You can see the details here:

http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-2527

Are you working with trunk so that you have these changes?

If so, can you give me an example of a change that shows the CDATA removal issue so that I can try it out?
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 26, 2009 10:16 AM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hey Jorge,

I changed from my 5.2.x branche version to the trunk version and in fact the CDATA removal issue was raised but on the other hand it still persists number of errors related to unencoded ampersands.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 26, 2009 11:29 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Boubker,

When you say 'raised' you mean 'fixed', right?

Regarding the unencoded ampersands we still haven't found a perfect solution to solve that issue. Do you have any ideas about how to deal with it?
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 26, 2009 11:40 AM
Answer

Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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here is the patch to solve the remaining unencoded ampersands to make the default theme in Liferay XHTML compliant
Attachments: LEP-2527-build-28205.zip (0.6k)
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 27, 2009 2:34 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Thanks a lot Boubker.

Would you mind adding that patch to a ticket in JIRA? I need you to do that so that you accept the contribution agreement.
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 29, 2009 2:22 PM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Ok Jorge,

i will add a sub-task to this ticket http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-2527 in JIRA and attach the patch.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
March 30, 2009 1:20 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Thanks!!
None None
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 10, 2009 6:21 AM
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None None

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Would it be possible to achieve 508-compliance?

There are about 16 rules that make a website 508-compliant. These 16 rules are given at the folowing URI:

§1194.22 Web-based intranet and internet information and applications
http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=12#Web

The "Section 508" Theme doesn't meet all the rules at the above URI.

Thank you Jorge for opening up the accessibility discussion.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 12, 2009 11:41 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Bijan,

The short answer is yes. In order to create a 508 compliant website you have to make sure the theme you pick is compliant and also use only portlets that follow all the rules. Most of Liferay's bundled portlets are compliant (navigation, content publishing, message boards, ...) for anonymous users, but not all. You'll have to do a little testing on your sides because compliance is not an exact science. For example some validators mandate XHTML compliance (because the DTD of our themes specify that) and some do not.

This thread is about going an step further by refining some accessibility aspects (such as the one with complete XHTML compliance), making all the main portlets accessible and also by diving into accessibility for registered user interaction.

If you have the time, knowledge and energy we'll be glad to have you on the accessibility team to help out.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 14, 2009 9:40 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hello,
I'm glad to see that you are interested in such thing. I hope next step should be usability. emoticon
I'm confused by following "problems"...
1) TABLEs
There are lot of redundant tables in code. I mean layout-grid, lfr-grid (I can see“simple“tables with one row and one column here). So there are tables everywhere and used for everything. Note that you're not able to style up a lot of thing because it is column of table (e. g. .lfr-table #toggle_id_journal_article_searchadvanced .portlet-journal - this is typical example). There should be used elements as a label is. I want to say: Use table just for data, not for text formatting. Did you tried to "read" some pages with screen reader? It must go through many tables and than it can finally read desirable content. So, use summary, thead, tfoot, tbody. I know it is problematic to create non-table layout displayable by the most of browsers. But there must be a milestone one time - someone must say: "Don't worry about IE5 users!" emoticon
2) Forms
We have developer studio on our university that is doing researches in the accessibility direction. So, there are many mistakes in Liferay's forms. I can give you recommendations for one site where is a how-to and some examples of usage of screen reader.
3) BRs
I saw in many portlets used br tag on places which could be done simply by style. I've placed issue into Jira about it but this isn't only the place where it can be found. It isn't easy to hide/resize these breaks. Please, don't use nobr tag too. ;)
4) B
Please, use strong tag instead.
5) Semantically Correct Code
As it was told it is important to pick up some good standards and go forward to reach them. ;) It is important to clean up themes and develop well formed templates etc.
6) Compatibility
I think it will be enough to target (and test) everything to browsers developed after 2001. It will be good to have someone who will test all the stuff emoticon on the most known user agents (browser engines). Sometime I have to switch between browsers because I have to face with some JavaScripts that don't work in FF3 or Chrome.

Targets are far-far away. The journey will be long but there are ways and we have to make a decision...

With best regards,
Milan.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 14, 2009 11:56 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

Thanks for your input. I think everything you said makes sense. In fact we've already started making changes in the last two versions in the direction of having more semantic HTML (in particular for forms we are using a variant of uniform). But we are still half way through because Liferay is a huge product.

Of course any help in form of patches to accelerate the process is very appreciated emoticon
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 16, 2009 6:36 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Maybe I'll have more allocated hours for thing as this is. Maybe I'll have time to correct some errors and contribute patches in future. I'm not sure if my knowledge is as far as "real contributor" has. emoticon I don't fell able to do that now but we have an expert (in company) who is visiting Liferay seminars and he will teach me it all... emoticon
One day I'll be a big contributor...
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 21, 2009 5:34 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi Jorge,
I've recollect one thing I didn't highlight: It will be great if at least new portlets could be well semantically written. We have to create some process or leastwise some how-to to inform others that this is really important.

What should be the best way for that (Wiki or some blog articles)? I have idea to join (integrate) this into other articles about how to create portlet (etc.). ;) What about documentation? I'm not sure if I'm able to do that with my poor English. ;]
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 21, 2009 7:50 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

Most if not all new portlets that have been developed lately are following a much more semantic markup. We are also in the process of rewriting all existing forms to use a uniForm based standard. In 5.2 most of the forms accessed through the Control Panel are migrated and we hope to finish almost all others for 5.3. Help is very welcome in this task emoticon

Regarding defining an standard it's already done in the wiki. Check: Liferay UI Guidelines

If you want to add more conventions my recommendation would be to create one or more new threads about it. Once Nate approves the convention it can be added to the wiki.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 22, 2009 1:35 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi,
We were testing a 5.2.2 yesterday and I can tell you did really good job on forms. I saw it in many places pretty well coded. ;) Thanks!
We've found some strange behaviour too so I'll post it...

According to Liferay UI Guidelines: I know this document but I think that "General rules" should be somewhere closely specified… Or if you know some really good web page about this it could be a solution just add link. I know the perfect one but it is in Czech language. So please look at it’s source code. Do you know some similar web but in English?
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
April 25, 2009 7:00 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

Thanks for the acknowledgements emoticon

I don't know of any similar site in English. But I agree with you that linking to similar sites when we find them would be a good idea. In any case meanwhile we should keep extending the UI guidelines when we want to make clear a given rule all Liferay code should follow.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 9, 2009 1:57 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hello Jorge,
How is it with planned improvements? I have exams so I have no time to spend on this for now. I spent a lot of time with Liferay 5.2.3 and on process of upgrade. It is almost impossible for us to upgrade but it should be in another discussion...

Back to accessibility: I want to tell you that there are many steps forward in usability and accessibility in 5.2.3 (e. g. WebForm; WebContetnt...) But there are still many and many errors too. I really don't understand to frequently used "lfr-table" with one row and one column. What about JavaScript? There are a lot of functionalities that use JavaScript (it’s okay) but did you try to turn the JavaScript off? Than the almost all Liferay is unusable.

Regards.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 9, 2009 12:01 PM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

We are currently focusing on:
  • HTML compliance. Including proper encoding of URLs which is tough.
  • Smarter and more semantical placing of headers.


Regarding JavaScript, we think that when it's disabled visitors should be able to navigate the site. But we don't think they should be able to manage the site or even participate in all of our portlets. Although it would be nice to allow participation in wiki, forums, polls, ... which are targeted to the end user. For administration UIs we'll probably be following the path of using WAI ARIA, although that'll probably be in a second phase.

If you want to help (maybe after your exams?) it would be useful if you could help finding issues with js disabled for anonymous users (the main portlets as well as wiki and forums should be ok already). Next it would be useful to help finding alternatives to JavaScript to allow participation in wiki and forums.
gerald hemmers
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 10, 2009 3:48 PM
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gerald hemmers

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Hi Jorge,
I will run a test tomorrow with javascript disabled. Ik have now a running version of 5.2.3. It would be very nice if liferay will work with javascript disabled. I'm living in The netherlands and working a lot for the goverment. Here it is law (for public goverment websites) to be compliant with the so called 'dutch web guidelines', basicly there are 125 guidelines and the mean thing is the content must be visible without 3rd party technology like javascript. The website must be complaint as well with xhtml and css 2.0.

I liferay will pase this test it will be a very nice option to implement into departures and use it as a goverment portal system. So i will run a small javascript test tomorrow and let you know what i will find out....

Besides that i create some templates myself based completly on div's (lay-out and designs) but i think i'm breaking the standard layout css and controlling that one with my custom.css from the design template. Still working on my own 'private' test server but here is what i have so far. http://veiligvoedsel.i-mind.nl:8080/web/veiligvoedsel.nl/

By the way i once created a overview old html tags (like B and br instead of strong and <br /> or <p>) If it is any use to you to do a search and replace on the source code just let me know and i will look it up and post it.
grz, gerald
Amine Bousta
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 16, 2009 5:33 AM
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Amine Bousta

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Hello

I see that great efforts have been made to improve classic theme and Liferay's ui compliance.
It is very difficult because of the large amount of rules but it is often a highly required condition so it worth it.

A great step will be achieved when Liferay will pass tests out of the box.
But then contributors will add web contents, create themes and their web sites can loose this compliance.

Is there a way to help people keeping this compliance?
I'm thinking about :
- a help icon that points to a web site listing rules and to various online tools
- a validator that can check basic conformity issues automatically when a new content is saved and give an alert (an image's alt is missing for exemple)

But I wonder if we have to code this in Liferay or in FCKEditor itself actually....
Julio Camarero
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 17, 2009 12:24 AM
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Julio Camarero

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Hi Gerald,

that would be really interesting.... we are looking forward to your posting that,

thank you!
Julio Camarero
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 17, 2009 12:28 AM
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Julio Camarero

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Hi Amine,

I think you are absolutely right about that and I had the same fears in the last days.... I think we shouldn't worry about the themes, because theme developers will also make an effort to make their themes accesible. However, I strongly agree with you about the web contents. Users may not know what an alt attribute is.... they just add an image in an editor and we should make sure that they also add a short description for it or leave it empty if it is decorative.

Apart from the alt atribute, which is the clearer for me too... which other things could we automatically fix or improve? do you have any idea? I was thinking of headers but I haven't reached any conclussion about it yet...

Thanks a lot
Amine Bousta
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 23, 2009 1:31 AM
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Amine Bousta

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Hello

I think we should first seperate rules into two subsets :
1. rules that can be checked automatically by a validator
2. rules that can only be suggested to the contributor

Example of type 2 rule : The meaning of the alt attribute has to represent the picture itself explicitely.
We surely can't check that with Liferay but we should give a reminder, a simple text for those who are trying to build a compliant web site and a link to an external official web site.

So first of all I'll try to post here a list that makes this distinction as soon as possible

Regards
Julio Camarero
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 23, 2009 1:36 AM
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Julio Camarero

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Hi Amine,

that seems a good begining to me.... I am looking forward to working on that list....

Thanks!
gerald hemmers
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
June 23, 2009 4:43 PM
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gerald hemmers

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Hi there sorry for my late response but my day job was taking up a lot of my time.. I just went throug the documents that i had but they are not 100% complete. A lot of usefull content is writin in dutch a will take a look at it tomorrow for you because it wouldn't be that hard to change them in something readable for you emoticon .. I also hope to finish my java script test this week (i will test it on the basic theme). grz, gerald

edit after looking through my files:
ok the biggest problem that i found where the following (based on other project that i did)
- no capitals in your source
- no font tags or other design elements in your sorce (everything must be controlled within you source) search for the color tag, font tag, cellspacing padding, hspace, vspace, center etc)
- no b tags use <strong instead>
- allway use quotes around tag values ... so alt="test image" and no alt=test
- search for unclosed tags.
- dont use tables for lay-out. but only for table content. (allways use tables headers)

That is just my small brain dump for now i included a xls file with some differences between html 4.01 and xhtml.
Attachments: XHTML-definition.xls (18.5k)
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
July 30, 2009 8:56 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi,
I passed my exams... But I started to have more and more tasks to do in job. I'm still interested in this but time. Grrr.
And what about you? Do you have any progress?
I really like your "Dutch rules". Because my it is similar as my personal codex is. :-)
With regards.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
July 30, 2009 9:27 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi,
I can agree with you that there are some more important things. So there could be prepared some plan or else...
I'm little bit stressed by time planning in job so I'm not able to do much more now. But I spent a some time with translation to our language and I've found that there are some HTML mistakes. See LPS-4392 for more details. ;)
Regards.
Julio Camarero
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
August 4, 2009 9:29 AM
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Julio Camarero

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Hi Milan,

thank you very much for your contribution. I just committed it to trunk and also applied to all the language files in liferay.

By the way, if you could do the same for other jsp files in liferay, where we still use <b> or <i> that would be of great help!

Cheers!
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
August 4, 2009 9:44 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi, I'm able to do that. But I think it could be easier for someone who has access to the svn. There are many automation tools for this as I know. BTW: How can someone get access to trunk?
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
August 24, 2009 10:50 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

You can access trunk yourself checking it out from SVN: svn://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/trunk
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
August 25, 2009 1:04 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi Jorge,
I can do that. I'll check out all sources and do the changes. After that I'll send it compressed to you okay? ;-)
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
August 25, 2009 1:24 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

Sounds good. To send the contribution, create a new LPS in JIRA (support.liferay.com) describing the change and attach a patch. Then post a message here with a link to the LPS to make sure it doesn't get unnoticed.

Start with small patches until you get used to the process.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
September 11, 2009 12:04 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hello,
I had a short time assigned to this issue two weeks ago so I've downloaded latest sources and I start with bugfixing but when I want download newer revision I can't. It is asking me for the password now.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
September 11, 2009 12:39 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Milan,

That's great. We'll welcome your help.

Regarding your issue with SVN check this blog post: http://www.liferay.com/web/brian.chan/blog/-/blogs/changes-to-anonymous-access-to-liferay-s-svn
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 15, 2009 3:21 PM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hey everyone, it was a long time ago for me in this forum...
It doesn't mean that my interest for the accessibility improvement project decreased.
My team worked this last month on setting in conformity of part of xhtml code generated by liferay (theme, login, forum, and more). We used xhtml 1.0 transitional doctype and a 5.2.2 version of Liferay.
Because of the great number of modified files and the lack of time to create patch for each one. Which would be the best way to contribute : a zip archive with jsp files?

with regards,

Boubker TAGNAOUTI

PS : here is a link to W3C validator : http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toulouse.fr%2Fweb%2Fguest%2Faccueil&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 15, 2009 10:59 PM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi Boubker,
That web is looking really great. I like that menu on the top and that cool "dock menu" both with li structure. Nice web don't you think guys?

You did a lot of useful work IMHO. But I see some little issues here. ;)
1) There are a lot of LI tags with empty class. <li class="">. (For about 5 times.)
2) I'm not sure if meta description should have lang parameter... (1)
3) align="middle" ; align="right" ; valign="top" Why? CSS instead... (5?)
4) All <input... /> elements should be contained in some container. I mean <div>, <p> or better <fieldset>. (3?).
5) Empty form: <form action="" method="post" name="hrefFm"></form>. (1)
I wasn't looking deeply maybe this issues are within some portlets you are not interested in to modify. Don' know. ;)
So, maybe you are rid of that web/guest/ in URL... This could go out.

Never mind you did a great job. I was facing this issue too... How many files did you modified according to this?

EDIT: Removed silly questions...
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 17, 2009 4:47 AM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hi Milan,

Thanks for this review.

1) There are a lot of LI tags with empty class. <li class="">. (For about 5 times.)

This issue should be fixed very soon.

2) I'm not sure if meta description should have lang parameter... (1)

Usage of lang attribut in Meta description and Meta content is not prohibited in xhtml 1.0 transitional doctype.
From the point of view of accessibility, here is a citation from WCAG 1.0 :
Content developers should identify the predominant natural language of a document's content (through markup or HTTP headers).

3) align="middle" ; align="right" ; valign="top" Why? CSS instead... (5?)

The separation of the contents and its presentation is a practice which we constantly privilege in our developments. But in certain situations, for reasons of compatibility with the existing code (theme, layout template, taglib) we prefer to leave the things in state (usage of the presentation in the contents is not being prohibited but is disadvised)

4) All <input... /> elements should be contained in some container. I mean <div>, <p> or better <fieldset>. (3?).

I am not sure about what you said, there is nothing related to this in the dtd.
<div> and <p> tag does not have a real semantic sens in the case of a form and inputs. Concerning <fieldset> tag it is used when it makes sens to group elements.

5) Empty form: <form action="" method="post" name="hrefFm"></form>. (1)

Poll display portlet use javascript to post form data. We should provide a no script alternative.

How many files did you modified according to this?

Here is the tree structure that we modified:
html/common (4 files)
html/portal/layout/(1 file)
html/portlet/ (about 70 files)
html/taglib/ui (about 40 files)
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 18, 2009 11:26 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi,
you're welcome but I did nothing. ;)
ad 2) I prefer this:
<meta http-equiv="Content-language" content="cs"/>
ad 3) I mean it isn't wrong. Just little details. ;o) I don't like that Liferay use that <style> tags which supports easy way to modify page styles. Similar it is with that JavaScript with information about browser etc. But I know this is really easy way and I don't have any idea how to do it correctly. How to totally separate look from information. :-/
ad 4) You're right. I was thinking wrong way or I didn't find it now. }:-)~
Wow, that's interesting. I wasn't either on beginning as I see. Phew. That's good that this job has been done. But how to apply changes to trunk? Liferay guys want patches. Is it possible to make patches of these changes or not? I hope it is and I hope it will not cost a long time. >:-/

I like philosophy of XHTML 1.1 so I tried to check your web with this doctype and there were more bugs. Never mind. I think it's okay. ;) This isn't often used doctype. I like it but I really disagree with XHTML 2. For me is HTML 5 better way now - One of interesting pint of this new technology (which is almost BACK COMPATIBLE) is it's possibility to switch to XML notation.

Regards.
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 18, 2009 12:53 PM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hi Milan,

ad 2) I prefer this:
<meta http-equiv="Content-language" content="cs"/>

I agree with you, it's the best way to define primary language of a document. And we are going to add this meta information to our theme.

We worked on a 5.2.2 version of Liferay, apply these changes to the trunk should cost more times that we could offer. My team will be very busy these next few weeks. Maybe we can share our works with community's members who wants to collaborate to create patches and backport this to the trunk. We could take part at this work, when our activity will decrease.

Regards.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 18, 2009 1:59 PM
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi Boubker,
I hope you'll find some volunteer here who can be able to do revision of your code and who can create wanted patches.
I still have some rests and I gave some promises to community - I have what to do now (BTW: I'm little bit off-line because of school.)
With the best regards,
Milan.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 21, 2009 2:23 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Boubker,

It's great to hear back from you. Good job on the site, it looks really well.

As you know we've decided to move to HTML 5 in Liferay 5.3, so there could be changes that you've done that will not be needed any more. But, I'm pretty sure that some of them can still be applied, and some others that while not necessary will improve the current practices.

I agree with you that a patch may not be the best way to apply the changes if there are so many modified files. Instead I would suggest the following process:

1) Identify a few related changes (2-3) and identify one JSP where each of those changes has been applied
2) Explain the change or provide a patch only for those JSPs
3) We review it and suggest changes if necessary. If necessary the alternatives are discussed in the forum until a decission is made
4) We apply that change through all JSPs
5) Repeat from step 1 with a few additional changes
Marco Bolzan
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 21, 2009 3:20 AM
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Marco Bolzan

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Hi all and congratulations,

I'm a web programmer living in Italy and from 3 monthes we use Liferay and Liferay Social Office.
Our clients are often public administrations and they what often accessible applications, we create a lot of portal accessible with others cms like G8 Summit 2009 or Justice Ministrerial web site.
I studied WCAG 1.0 and I'm studing WCAG 2.0, I know well also italian law "Legge Stanca" to manage accessibility.

How Can I contribute to this so util plan ? emoticon
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 4:50 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Marco,

It'll be great to have your help. For 5.3 we want to focus on WCAG 2.0 since it has a much more modern approach than previous standards (specially with regards to JavaScript). There are lots of minor things that we would like to improve in this area in which you could help.

Do you have any idea or preference in what you want to start with?
Marco Bolzan
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 5:28 AM
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Marco Bolzan

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I think that to give alternative behaviours of javascript is a most important aspect of accessibility, but it is a world of thing to do..

Perhaps a util approch (and let me say "at my level" about effort in terms of hours available) should be:
exist a feature that is not accessible, analyze why it isn't, think and plan how to rebuild accessible and then share with people (graphics, html, css) the solution.

Exist a simil approch or exist a "list" of thing to fix ?

Thanks
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 5:33 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Marco,

We don't have such as list yet, so one way you could start helping is identifying the most important issues as of now. I would start with accessing the portal as an anonymous user and once we have achieved full WCAG 2 AA compliace for that we can start with the registered users.

BTW, note that WCAG 2 does not forbid JavaScript as older versions used to. In fact it even encourages its use in some areas (such as client-side form validation), it just specifies certain rules for a proper use of JavaScript. This is one important reason for choosing WCAG 2 for Liferay, since we don't want to "fight" against an specification that is 10 years old.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 5:42 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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Let me little off-topic:
I think security is more important thing if using JavaScript. I mean Liferay is going to move a lot of services forward to AJAX (or AHAH?) and I didn't find anywhere any notes about security of Liferay on that. I hope all AJAX (or AHAH) developers here are familiar with these security vulnerabilities. Sorry I have time only for noticing this not for analyzing Liferay by this way. :o) I can just provide these two links and recommendation for using google. ;)
AJAX (Asynchronous Javascript and XML) Security
Hacking Web 2.0 Applications with Firefox

Sorry for OT, I've just remember it during reading your post. ;) Regards.
Marco Bolzan
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 5:57 AM
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Marco Bolzan

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Yeah I know is not forbid, but what I understand is that you have to allow users that disable it to access at the same feature, are u agree?
btw I'll go to study better this aspect emoticon

for experience I did some important check-list-test with commission of public administrations and disable js is one of the first thing they check, then they check multibrowsing and resize layout and only after usability and technical accessibility of feature (on which we programmers are usually think about before).

I'm agree with u is important to leave specification that is 10 years old, but for example not consider 800x600 resizing is wrong; I know is a very old resolution but a lot of people have it, so is important to keep in mind.
It's a common argument of all blog and forum speaking about accessibility: "we want to make a accessible beautiful and with a majority of javascript site" but if they forgot for all html 4 and they use for example only html 5 or they don't consider layout on explorer 6, their site will not be accessible completly.

btw to start Do I consider liferay 5.2.3 bundle version?
In my point of view I should start to think at the portal, let me say, without portlet, so thinking about only layout macro-structure, pure html and css aspects. Anyone has already analyse this part of project?
If you are agree I should start to create/think the "delta" from now to a real flex/liquid layout (in concrete considering only #banner, #navigation, #wrapper, #footer).

exist a place where to document our analyses (also not formal and official doc) or is all on this forum branch "core dev e contrib > accessibility"?
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 7:03 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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You're really right with 800x600. Note there are a lot of Japanese people (not only) which uses primarily hi-tech devices for browsing and this size will be still IMHO border in future. So remember the mobile devices which are not irrelevant.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 23, 2009 2:36 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Marco,

Find my comments below.

Marco Bolzan:
Yeah I know is not forbid, but what I understand is that you have to allow users that disable it to access at the same feature, are u agree?

for experience I did some important check-list-test with commission of public administrations and disable js is one of the first thing they check, then they check multibrowsing and resize layout and only after usability and technical accessibility of feature (on which we programmers are usually think about before).


That's the "old way" specified in what is now known as WCAG 1.0. While many public institutions are still using those guidelines I'm seeing a very fast move to WCAG 2.0. And WCAG 2.0 is much more permissive with JavaScript since most screen readers and other assistive technologies work well with it nowadays.

While this is not written in stone and I'd be glad to hear counter arguments, I think we should forget about WCAG 1.0 and focus on WCAG 2.0. Some reasons for this are:
- By the time 5.3 is out WCAG 2.0 will be very spread out (in Spain all new public licitations are already referring to it)
- By forgetting about the Javascript related limitations imposed by WCAG 1.0 we will be able to focus on making Liferay based sites much more accessible from a real world perspective .
- WCAG 2.0 has good proposals to use JavaScript to make the site more usable to users with assistive technologies. We should leverage this.

Marco Bolzan:

I'm agree with u is important to leave specification that is 10 years old, but for example not consider 800x600 resizing is wrong; I know is a very old resolution but a lot of people have it, so is important to keep in mind.
It's a common argument of all blog and forum speaking about accessibility: "we want to make a accessible beautiful and with a majority of javascript site" but if they forgot for all html 4 and they use for example only html 5 or they don't consider layout on explorer 6, their site will not be accessible completly.


Agreed on supporting resizing. I wouldn't optimize the portal for 800x600 but the site should be usable for those with that screen size. This is important, specifically now that mobile access is more and more popular.

Regarding HTML 5, note that it has a very innovative approach for maintaining full backwards compatibility. Actually the W3C is encouraging people to start using its features right away, and many important sites are starting to use it exactly because of that (including apple.com, youtube.com, ...).

Specifically, note that the DOCTYPE suggested by this new spec just specifies that the document is HTML, but there is no mention of its specific version.

Marco Bolzan:

btw to start Do I consider liferay 5.2.3 bundle version?
In my point of view I should start to think at the portal, let me say, without portlet, so thinking about only layout macro-structure, pure html and css aspects. Anyone has already analyse this part of project?
If you are agree I should start to create/think the "delta" from now to a real flex/liquid layout (in concrete considering only #banner, #navigation, #wrapper, #footer).


It's much better if you start with the latest source code from trunk, since there are several improvements in this area, specially with the introduction of Alloy UI.

Also, I would recommend to focus first on smaller things, such as the markup inside portlets, since those are easier and lead to less

Marco Bolzan:

exist a place where to document our analyses (also not formal and official doc) or is all on this forum branch "core dev e contrib > accessibility"?


Lets start using this thread and if necessary we'll move the information to a wiki page.
Marco Bolzan
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 8:23 AM
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Marco Bolzan

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Jorge Ferrer:

That's the "old way" specified in what is now known as WCAG 1.0. While many public institutions are still using those guidelines I'm seeing a very fast move to WCAG 2.0. And WCAG 2.0 is much more permissive with JavaScript since most screen readers and other assistive technologies work well with it nowadays.


I'm happy to know this fast move to WCAG 2 emoticon but , sorry, is evident I'm one of that people anchor on wcag 1, eheh.. perhaps it's fault of our "old" clients.. emoticon

I have to widen these changements about second version to not lose the line of this rebuilding project.

I'm agree also to start from little thinks, one portlet for example.. I go to study... bye
Milan Jaroš
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
October 22, 2009 10:56 AM
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Milan Jaroš

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I totally agree...
Thank you Jorge for your "summarization".
Luis Rodríguez Fernández
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 21, 2010 1:29 AM
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Luis Rodríguez Fernández

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Boubker TAGNAOUTI:

Because of the great number of modified files and the lack of time to create patch for each one. Which would be the best way to contribute : a zip archive with jsp files?


Hi Boubker,

We are very interested on improving the accesibility of our portal. We have been looking at your portal "http://www.toulouse.fr/" and we are really impressed in how you and your team "have cleaned" the code for getting it XHTML compliant (well, almost at least, only 5 Errors, 2 warning(s), that's great! you must see our home page code at this time). We were very interested in your contribution. I have seeked your jira issues, but I have only found the LPS-2527. Could you upload these zip archive that you talk about in the post? It would be great for us if we could have a look at these jsp code!

We are also working on getting the XHTML compliance, but our solution is a little bit rude: we are using the escape() method from the com.liferay.portal.kernel.util.HtmlUtil class.

Thanks in advance,

Luis

ps: also thanks to everyone for your efforts and contributions!
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 25, 2010 5:57 AM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hi Luis,

Sorry I didn't have enough time to prepare our contribution... We have to extract our specific project's code before sending our works.

I promise to do my best to make this code available as soon as possible.

Regards,

Boubker TAGNAOUTI
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 25, 2010 11:44 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Boubker,

Thanks, I'll be looking forward to it.
Sébastien Meunier
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 26, 2010 3:24 AM
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Sébastien Meunier

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Hi everyone,

I'm Sébastien Meunier, working at Beorn Technologies with Boubker.
As he promised, here is our work on XHTML compliance.

The files included in the zip are not patches, they are modified files based on Liferay 5.2.2.
We mostly only cleaned portlets and taglibs that a normal user can see on our specific project.

Portlets: Login, Image gallery, Polls (Partially, because our version is customized and only the customized version was cleaned), Web content, Search and Portlet configuration. The forum portlet has also been cleaned but it contains too much customization to extract only the code relative to XHTML compliance.

Tablibs: Captcha, Discussion, IconHelp, InputCheckbox, InputDate, InputField, InputMoveBoxes, InputPermissions, InputResource, InputScheduler, InputSelect, InputTextarea, InputTime, InputTimeZone, JournalContentSearch, PageIterator, Ratings, SocialBookmark, SocialBookmarks, Tabs, UserDisplay.

We also had to modify the theme to escape some values and to move the javascript from after the </body> tag to just before it. Those modified vm files are also included in the zip and are based on the unstyled theme.
Attachments: xhtml.zip (127.7k)
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 26, 2010 5:15 AM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Hi Séb,

thank you for this work!
Luis Rodríguez Fernández
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 27, 2010 9:01 AM
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Luis Rodríguez Fernández

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Hi Séb and Boubker,

really thanks for your contribution!!!

Best regards,

Luis
Kyrre Myrbostad
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
January 29, 2010 2:13 PM
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Kyrre Myrbostad

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Thanks alot for taking the effort to post your work on XHTML compliance!
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
February 8, 2010 4:03 AM
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hi Séb and Boubker,

Thanks a lot for your contribution emoticon

Unfortunately it seems the attachment may have been lost in the migration to the new site. Would you mind uploading it again?

Actually, it would be better if you could create a JIRA ticket and upload it there. Afterwards post here the link to the ticket.

Thanks again,
Jorge
Boubker TAGNAOUTI
RE: Planning accessibility improvements for 5.3
February 19, 2010 6:35 AM
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Boubker TAGNAOUTI

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Jira ticket was created : LPS-7867