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Bill Hillston
Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 3:49 AM
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Bill Hillston

Rank: New Member

Posts: 4

Join Date: September 6, 2012

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After working with Liferay for several months, I would conclude that Liferay totally SUCKS!!!

1) It is terrible to END USERS without lots of customisations.
- The user interface is so old fashioned. Oh please, it is 2012 now, try to use AJAX!
- Different portlets have different approaches for the same thing. For example, the file upload interfaces for Wiki / Message Board / Document and Media portlet are totally different, why so complicated?!
- How come there are so many USELESS portlets? Just try to increase the number and tell the public that Liferay is powerful? Some of existing portlets should be integrated and some of them should be removed, no one will use them at all!!
- You know Apple and Steve Jobs, right? Then you should how importance user interface is!! It is not 199x any more!!!

2) Nightmare to DEVELOPERS!!
- As mentioned above, lots customisations are needed.
- The project is too complicated. If you are doing in-depth customisation, you will feel my pain.
- Many essential features are missing, e.g. audit trail log, search result highlight, etc
- How come there is no documentation? Open source project without documentation... WTF.
- How come there is no comment in source code at all? Which university have you developers studied? Liferay should aim at being a sustainable project, not homework, okay!!
- The portlets are interdependent. Disabling one, others may be affected. What is the meaning of having different portlets in Liferay?
- There is no one to guarantee the quality? Where is the project manager?


Open source is not an excuse for creating this rubbish.
I have no reason to believe that Liferay can still survive in Web 2.0 era.
If you are considering Liferay for your project, please do yourself a favour and throw this rubbish away or you will regret. I MEAN IT.

Because of Liferay, my workload increased a lot. I am too angry now, sorry for being impolite.
Bill Hillston
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 3:13 AM
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Bill Hillston

Rank: New Member

Posts: 4

Join Date: September 6, 2012

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Just found some articles supporting my views.
http://sadsoftware.blogspot.hk/2009/02/things-you-should-know-about-liferay-in.html
http://ask.metafilter.com/160241/Is-Liferay-really-as-terrible-as-it-seems-to-be
http://amplicate.com/hate/liferay

By the way, [Reply with Quote] [Quick Reply], don't you think it is too complicated?
You will know what I mean i you try to reply this thread ;-)
Bill Hillston
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 3:26 AM
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Bill Hillston

Rank: New Member

Posts: 4

Join Date: September 6, 2012

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http://liferaycms.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/liferay-hate-love-learn/
"In terms of UX Liferay is light years behind WordPress and miles behind Alfresco and Joomla."

http://amplicate.com/hate/liferay
"Liferay is a very very buggy poortly written piece of software. Developed by people that live in a bubble and think that everything they do is awesome."

I laughed. LOL
Muzakir Khan
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 4:45 AM
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Muzakir Khan

Rank: Regular Member

Posts: 112

Join Date: March 14, 2012

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Hi Bill Hill!!..
Its you who suck!!..
The user interface is so old fashioned. Oh please, it is 2012 now, try to use AJAX!

If your opinion is that liferay uses old technology, then remember, Old is Gold..
I think so you are frustated and not able to catch Liferay properly..
Better you take leave for a while.. BILL HILL, I Suggest you to enjoy your leave on top of the hill..

Regards
Muzakir Khan
Pradeep Pandey
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 4:42 AM
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Pradeep Pandey

Rank: New Member

Posts: 6

Join Date: July 18, 2012

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I think You Need Proper training in Liferay....
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 4:50 AM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7954

Join Date: March 23, 2010

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Muzakir Khan:
Hi Bill Hill!!..
Its you who suck!!..
The user interface is so old fashioned. Oh please, it is 2012 now, try to use AJAX!

If your opinion is that liferay uses old technology, then remember, Old is Gold..
I think so you are frustated and not able to catch Liferay properly..
Better you take leave for a while..


Muzakir, you've missed the point. You should have pointed out that liferay does use ajax.
Bill has right to his opinion but he should have done a better job doing his homework before he made his post.
No document? I mean what that "Documentation" in the above menu bar?

Nevertheless, he does have a point in in liferay having different ui to do the same thing and ui being too complex
and having portlets that aren't normally now used.
Muzakir Khan
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:00 AM
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Muzakir Khan

Rank: Regular Member

Posts: 112

Join Date: March 14, 2012

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Hitoshi Ozawa:
Muzakir Khan:
Hi Bill Hill!!..
Its you who suck!!..
The user interface is so old fashioned. Oh please, it is 2012 now, try to use AJAX!

If your opinion is that liferay uses old technology, then remember, Old is Gold..
I think so you are frustated and not able to catch Liferay properly..
Better you take leave for a while..


Muzakir, you've missed the point. You should have pointed out that liferay does use ajax.
Bill has right to his opinion but he should have done a better job doing his homework before he made his post.
No document? I mean what that "Documentation" in the above menu bar?

Nevertheless, he does have a point in in liferay having different ui to do the same thing and ui being too complex
and having portlets that aren't normally now used.



Yes Hitoshi, I knew already that Liferay supports Ajax.. But what is the use of making to understand a person who is trying to under estimate Our beautiful technology..
I think so he has been appointed by other rival technologies to post in our forum like this.. let me give me an example, " If an Elephant is walking then Dogs start barking at the Elephant but then too Elephant keeps walking with Pride.. Cheerz to whole world's Liferay teamemoticonemoticon..
Subhash Pavuskar
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:03 AM
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Subhash Pavuskar

Rank: Regular Member

Posts: 234

Join Date: March 12, 2012

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I guess This user made fake account and posting some nonsense things !!! I request to Liferay team Block this user, this thread and his/her IP address .
Jignesh Vachhani
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:27 AM
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Jignesh Vachhani

Rank: Liferay Master

Posts: 780

Join Date: March 10, 2008

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Bill

Let me clear your query here is,

First Liferay doesn't use all the old fashion technologies. Its using all the latest and most widely used framework like spring,hibernate,faces,lucene,solr,alloyui(might be you haven't heard yet)etc etc,

Second thing is liferay comes up with lot many portlets which might be not helpful so you can delete it easily.

Third point is Wiki,Document library and media,message board is initially designed but you can easily customize all the out of the box portlets very easilty with the help of plugin-sdk environment. So using plugin-sdk , you can customize and create hook,portlet,theme,layout,web project etc.

For developer point of view , yes it would be tough at initial level once they started work in liferay but afterward once they gone through training and wiki articles,its make lifer very easy for developers. and specially some of the utility like service builder,theme creation etc makes developers restful work.

And regarding documentation, liferay consist many useful blogs,wiki and most useful forum discussion here by which many developers are getting lots of benefits.

So better you go with some liferay training which would make your system and life easier.

At last this is not final product developed by Liferay inc like other proprietary software , its open source and continuously will be in enhancement mode so you can also contribute your functionality or some useful stuff so that many open source lover can get benefits of that.
So come and join the liferay community.
Pradeep Pandey
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:18 AM
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Pradeep Pandey

Rank: New Member

Posts: 6

Join Date: July 18, 2012

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Hey Hillston
It may be hard for you to understand.".what is liferay". If you want to survive in IT industries then You have to do smart work not hard work




Juan Fernández
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:25 AM
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Juan Fernández

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 1250

Join Date: October 2, 2008

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Hi guys

I don't think we should ban this user. I think we should learn from his comments and recognize the points where we need to improve.

If we "clean" his post a little bit, there are a few things we should focus on improving:

Bill Hillston:

- The user interface is so old fashioned. [...] try to use AJAX!


- True: despite we are starting to use it, we need more AJAX interfaces, above all in admin portlets

Bill Hillston:

- Different portlets have different approaches for the same thing.


- Agree: we should unify the way we interact with the system. We are working on it and we will count on a UX expert very soon.

Bill Hillston:

- How come there are so many USELESS portlets? Just try to increase the number and tell the public that Liferay is powerful? Some of existing portlets should be integrated and some of them should be removed, no one will use them at all!!


- Good point: we should make the core lighter and improve the plugins we have to make them more useful to satisfy our user's needs. I wouldn't state they are useless, but I would agree that many portlets that come out-of-the-box can be heavily improved.

Bill Hillston:

- Many essential features are missing, e.g. audit trail log, search result highlight, etc


This is an ongoing project. We can't implement everything all our users may need, as our resources are limited, and I guess this is something that will happen with any piece of software: they cover your needs to some extent. The rest, you can implement it by your self while we fight to give you the best product ever.

Bill Hillston:

- How come there is no comment in source code at all?


We are publishing tons of javadocs. Stay tunned - http://docs.liferay.com/portal/6.1/javadocs/

Bill Hillston:

- There is no one to guarantee the quality?


In the license you see when you use our software you may read: "This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU Lesser General Public License for more details."

But despite of that legal point, we struggle and work like crazy to create to best platform for you (which you download for free, by the way). If you need a quality guarantee, you can use our enterprise edition, which will allow you to report any bug you find and to get it fixed for you.

I just wanted to thank you for being sincere and for sharing your thoughts, as we learn a lot from this kind of comments: this keep us improving for our users.

Regards,
Juan Fernández
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:30 AM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7954

Join Date: March 23, 2010

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I think a post like Bill's implies liferay is succeeding because so many people complains about MS Windows but it's still one of the most used.

I think the recent spam attacks are further proof that liferay is being to get more notice.
Jignesh Vachhani
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:33 AM
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Jignesh Vachhani

Rank: Liferay Master

Posts: 780

Join Date: March 10, 2008

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Yes Juan,
I agreed , We should have to clear the doubt here and make liferay more scalable.emoticon
James Falkner
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 5:46 AM
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James Falkner

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 1222

Join Date: September 17, 2010

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Hitoshi Ozawa:
I think a post like Bill's implies liferay is succeeding because so many people complains about MS Windows but it's still one of the most used.

I think the recent spam attacks are further proof that liferay is being to get more notice.


"A rising tide lifts all boats" emoticon I am happy to see so many constructive responses from our community. And, like Juan, I agree we can and will learn from them. I don't have anything else to add, you guys pretty much covered it all.
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 6:10 AM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7954

Join Date: March 23, 2010

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Juan, if you're going to comment, please do it correctly.

- Many essential features are missing, e.g. audit trail log, search result highlight, etc


Isn't there an audit portlet in EE? Search portlet's results are highlighted.

- There is no one to guarantee the quality?


Bill's looking at the community version. Other open source projects also don't guarentee quality on their community version. If the user wants guarantee, get the enterprise edition. Furthermore, Bill probably probably haven't looked at other commercial software's license either. This is the line from MS Windows Vista license. I think Oracle has a similar clause.

25. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES. You can recover from Microsoft and its
suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot
recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or
incidental damages.


That said, I hope liferay.com will more use principles of agile methodology like scrum and commit to quality and dates first instead of adding more new features and delaying. Commit to quality and dates rather than features.

This is how I'm developing with liferay.
I'm relating a user story to a portlet. A business function an user wants is expressed as a portlet on a page. A user can add, update, and delete these business functions depending on his/her needs. End users's system needs are decomposed into user stories which are expressed by portlets on a page. We have qualified scrum masters and refining on our development methodology. I do hope liferay.com will do the same. :-)
Gaurav Jain
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 6:20 AM
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Gaurav Jain

Rank: Regular Member

Posts: 141

Join Date: January 31, 2011

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That said, I hope liferay.com will more use principles of agile methodology like scrum and commit to quality and dates first instead of adding more new features and delaying. Commit to quality and dates rather than features.


Well said Hitoshi. I agree.
Sampsa Sohlman
RE: Liferay sucks!! - may be not so.
September 6, 2012 8:21 AM
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Sampsa Sohlman

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Regular Member

Posts: 218

Join Date: September 27, 2007

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Hi Bill

Some of comments of mine.

Bill Hillston:
By the way, [Reply with Quote] [Quick Reply], don't you think it is too complicated?
You will know what I mean i you try to reply this thread ;-)


I find these very handy. Liferay forum is very usefull. You can quote person very easily and the tag language for writing these is good and simple enough. There is also draft support.

Bill Hillston:
- How come there are so many USELESS portlets? Just try to increase the number and tell the public that Liferay is powerful? Some of existing portlets should be integrated and some of them should be removed, no one will use them at all!!


True, I believe there is reason behind this history, since it is only possible to override functionality of core features, but not plugins. May be this comes in future.

Bill Hillston:
2) Nightmare to DEVELOPERS!!
- As mentioned above, lots customisations are needed.
- The project is too complicated. If you are doing in-depth customisation, you will feel my pain.


Lifeay is a platform and provides methods to extend it's functionality. Liferay architecture is actually quite pretty and have well designed layers and the means how to share information between plugins. There is order on design, which helps to find out the correct place for modification and many times you do not have recompile Liferay to use this modification, but you can use Liferay's hook feature just to override or extend that functionality. There is quite fast way to create persistence with service builder and third party extension XMLPortlet factory to generate UI too.

Bill Hillston:

- How come there is no documentation? Open source project without documentation... WTF.


There is documentation

Bill Hillston:

- How come there is no comment in source code at all? Which university have you developers studied? Liferay should aim at being a sustainable project, not homework, okay!!


Good and clean code does not need comments emoticon .. because comment's might be wrong and I'm not talking about the API documentation, which is coming better.

Still does not mean that Liferay code would be so good or clean. As mentioned before, the code is organized quite well for the layers may be due service builder related architecture, but still there should not be methods with [url=https://github.com/liferay/liferay-portal/blob/master/portal-impl/src/com/liferay/portal/events/ServicePreAction.java#initThemeDisplay(HttpServletRequest%20request,%20HttpServletResponse response)]1130 lines of code. On other hand there are some mind blowing examples doing things better than in core java.
Aad Nales
RE: Liferay sucks!! - may be not so.
September 6, 2012 8:45 AM
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Aad Nales

Rank: Junior Member

Posts: 25

Join Date: January 5, 2012

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Mmmm,

we have used Liferay now for a year with a team of about 15 developers that all had at least 7 year java experience in almost all of the consisting technologies of Liferay. I have heard comments like "Liferay Sucks" quite a few times from the guys that work with it. However, we have researched all other frameworks and have not found anything that is more geared towards reuse. Problem obviously is that the quality of Liferay is lacking.

Having said all of this there are two ways to handle this frustration. One is to vent it and do nothing and the other one is to get involved! In a thread not completely unrelated to this one you will find that a dozen or so developers are now going to provide patches on the community edition. It would be great if the knowledge gained in those activities is fed back into the main development process. Especially since Liferay's main challenge is still ahead.

Liferay is not yet ready for the cloud age. It can off course be installed in the cloud but it is not cloudy itself. Eventually the product will have to evolve into that or a framework on top of e.g. the Google App Engine will overtake it. My fear is that Liferay's core is not ready for a change like this.

regards,
Aad Nales
Mika Koivisto
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 9:41 AM
Answer

Mika Koivisto

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 1501

Join Date: August 7, 2006

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Nicely interpreted Juan. There's always room for improvement and without people expressing their pain points we can only guess what we should improve on.

Bill wants comments in the code but I think what he really wants is explained code samples on how to use the API.
David H Nebinger
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 6, 2012 10:05 AM
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David H Nebinger

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7245

Join Date: September 1, 2006

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Mika Koivisto:
Bill wants comments in the code but I think what he really wants is explained code samples on how to use the API.


Not true, Mika. Knowing what the API needs is only half the battle. If you're trying to figure out, for example, the calls from the XxxLocalServiceUtil class all the way through to your XxxLocalServiceImpl method and back, the API documentation doesn't help you a bit. Internal code documentation is the only thing that gets you there, and Bill is totally right that there is nothing in there. Part of this particular example is that you're talking about the code generated by Service Builder, sure, but there's the whole foundation stuff based upon BasePersistenceImpl and BaseModel, etc., that you need to read code to understand.

Certainly there are many points in Liferay where just having the API documentation should be enough. But sometimes digging into the code itself is necessary to understand why the invocation of that API does not have the expected result.

And sometimes the API documentation is incomplete - I remember recently I was investigating why some code to add a new user via the API was failing with some NPEs. The API documentation didn't say that the OpenID field for addUser() was required, so I was using null (since I'm not using OpenID). Had to dig into the code to see that yes, a null isn't allowed but an empty string would work.

And once you dig into the bowels of the Liferay code, you quickly can see Bill's point, there is little if any javadoc in there to explain methods, args, etc. As far as self-documenting code it does do that rather well, but having that javadoc comment for all classes, members, and methods is still a necessity.

Honestly I don't know how you guys, as a development team, can really work on the code at all. I expect Brian knows the code like the back of his hand, but for any other new Liferay developer they must be left to read the code and follow the trails it lays out w/o any javadoc to fall back upon...
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