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Corné Aussems
What Motivates our Community?
2011/07/19 15:09
答え

Corné Aussems

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 1253

参加年月日: 2006/10/03

最近の投稿

What Motivates our Community?

We had a small discussion on the 'Community Leadership Team' meeting concerning ways to improve the rewards given to Community members and what Liferay (community) can do to entice more people into contribution/collaboration/participation.

Since Liferay as an OpenSource project has not a lot of money to give away.

Traditionally in OS people (like me) first invest a lot of time/effort to become an experienced member and then after months monetize their experience and knowledge by becoming a Consultant or Senior.

I investigated this topic somewhat and i found out some members would be made more enthusiastically when they perceive a more direct (immediate) payoff and/or having benefits from their participation,

To me it seems that rewarding people instantly with work done and giving them virtual batches per Contribution and giving them a chance to build up a personal brand inside Liferay.com on their profile page will lure more members in than one time acknowledgment, additional permissions or goodies.

See my petty example.

Examples (Gold) (Silver) (Bronze) depending on the effort or maybe better just points Like Social Equity
- Translators and or Contributors to Translation
- Members of the Community Leadership Team
- Members of the Bug Squad
- Members of the 100 papercuts initiative
- Wiki providers
- MB ( existing )

I think besides some goodies & invitation to Symposium, maybe saving points for a free Training or issuing Certificate is an idea

I would really like we could have some feedback and discussion going on, because when we can motivate more members in helping we are contributing even more.

Greetings,
Corné

BTW Maybe this also works on Companies profiling them by contributing to Bug Squad or donate Plugins 'Businesses can use these badges to entice more business'

The surprising truth about what motivates us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
Tobias Käfer
RE: What Motivates our Community?
2011/07/19 23:15
答え

Tobias Käfer

ランク: Regular Member

投稿: 128

参加年月日: 2008/03/28

最近の投稿

As I said at the meeting:
Compare it to something like a hobby (playing Soccer, Baseball, Football, beeing in a Band etc.).
You are doing this because of the fun of it.
If someone comes by and gives you a litte credit like "well done", it raises the level of fun you achieve with your hobby.

Besides the fun, most of the people, that are involved in all the community programs, use Liferay for their jobs (beeing consultans, using Liferay as a product etc.).
Therefore most of us have a professional interest in influencing how the Liferay products proceed in the future.

So what motivates me? What's the point?
Getting credit, recognition etc.? Yes, to a certain degreee.
Having an impact on the Liferay software? Yes, certainly.
Havin fun? Of course.
Getting money, incentives, prices, badges? It's a "nice to have", but not a must.

One thing I have to say: In the time between 5.2.3 CE and 6.0.x it was not a fun thing to participate in the Liferay community (see my forum post about the closing of inactive tickets and my comments to Bryan Cheung's Blog entry).
The way how Liferay deals with the community changed dramatically (from my perspective) and that motivated me to participate within all those community programs.
David H Nebinger
RE: What Motivates our Community?
2011/07/20 7:01
答え

David H Nebinger

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 5740

参加年月日: 2006/09/01

最近の投稿

I can only speak for myself, but my motivation is to pay for something I've gotten for free...

I do a lot of stuff with Liferay CE edition, mainly as a platform for hosting intranet corporate (portlet) applications. For this purpose EE is not required and doesn't really have a value-add over the CE edition.

For implementing my portlets, I'm given:

  • A portal container that is platform-, app-container, and database-neutral.
  • An IDE to facilitate development of themes, portlets, and other plugins.
  • An extensive community of other folks who have hit the same problems I hit, and typically have a solution that I can reuse.


And all of these things that I'm given, I get them for free!

Even though they are free, I'm now in a position to give back. I know a little more than the Liferay newbies, but certainly not as much as I'd like or as much of other forum contributors. So I try to help the newbies where I can, and try to stay out of the way of the folks that know more than me.

Liferay might not realize anything from my contributions, but my 'guilt' (from getting something of value for free) is assuaged by them. I don't need a badge, etc., as these things pale in comparison to the free things I've already received...

As a side benefit to my contributions, I've met with and interacted with a lot of great, smart, and friendly Liferay developers. It's nice having friends in the field! emoticon
Deb Troxel
RE: What Motivates our Community?
2011/07/20 7:43
答え

Deb Troxel

ランク: Junior Member

投稿: 81

参加年月日: 2010/02/22

最近の投稿

There are a few reasons I try to participate in the Liferay community.

1. Increase my expertise in Liferay.
2. To make Liferay better.
3. To contribute something back in exchange for all the work that has come before.
4. To build relationships with people who have more experience and insight into the Liferay platform.

I'm indifferent to the idea of earning badges, but I do like Corné's suggestion of points that could be applied toward something like training. Maybe a points / redemption system so people can make their own selection from set of possible rewards. Since different people value different rewards, everyone could choose what they want to work toward.

I could also see the idea of extending the Partners program to include a Community Partner level, based on community contributions and participation but without a financial component.
Juan Fernández
RE: What Motivates our Community?
2011/07/20 7:53
答え

Juan Fernández

LIFERAY STAFF

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 1223

参加年月日: 2008/10/02

最近の投稿

What makes me participate in open source projects:

1) The will to learn new technologies
2) The idea of giving back to those who have created great tools I use for free every day
3) The idea of helping others
4) The sensation that provokes that other people around the world are using something you created in their everyday life
5) Recognition: I feel great when people thank my contributions
6) Intellectual challenge
7) The feeling of being part of something global and bigger than me

(remark nothing like money or mugs or caps are in my motivations... despite I LOVE mugs and t-shirts emoticon)
My two cents emoticon
Regards!
Corné Aussems
RE: What could motivate community members more?
2011/07/22 15:13
答え

Corné Aussems

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 1253

参加年月日: 2006/10/03

最近の投稿

Thanks to all for your reactions, but ... emoticon

Besides our own altruistic, pay it foreward/back motivations, that i think does not have to be rewarded but with the occasional pat on the back or t-shirt. (i have 4 different ones now, but miss the comic-shirt 'hint' ),
what i wanted to discuss is how to motivate those others that aren't motivated the way we are, but could be maybe persuaded into some community contribution with some simple means.

I think we our selves are likely to be in the top of Maslow's heirarchy of needs.

But those that are not and are in 'Esteem' would likely be taken to the next level by acknowledging their good work en respecting them as good members.

Now we only have ranks in the forum and becoming a valued member there will take a starting member years, while their work as translator,bug squad, verifier, etc goes unnoticed.

Some read ups i found underscribe your motivations and one common 'respect'
http://www.flossproject.org/report/FLOSS_Final0.pdf
http://staceyk.org/personal/WikipediaMotivations.pdf
http://www.springerlink.com/content/mkh03l0464670x61/fulltext.pdf

So let me rephrase:
What could motivate community members more
Tobias Käfer
RE: What could motivate community members more?
2011/07/23 3:27
答え

Tobias Käfer

ランク: Regular Member

投稿: 128

参加年月日: 2008/03/28

最近の投稿

Good question Corné.

I will try to take my subjectiv view, to an objective one:

For me it is evident, that the things that I contribute do have an impact and that they are recognized.
So first of all you have to somehow ensure that the contributions of someone, who is willing to participate, don't get lost in the shuffle or the noise of the others.
For Liferay as a company that will be (or is) a hard task to face, since there are thousands of good and not so good requests, issues, questions etc.
BTW: I did stop contributing bugfixes to another OSS project, because other patches never made it into the software, until now.

Fun is another motivation for me.
Therefore the work with Liferay as a software and a company should make fun.
Liferay is doing quite a good job in this, especially in the last year. (Special thanks to James Falkner)
Communication with Liferay should be easy, so that you are not getting annoyed.
"Established" people should be open minded and not beeing arrogant.

Being rewarded (batches, titles, money, incentives) might be a starter for someone to participate.
On the other hand, when you are getting a title (eg. "Head of **** translation", "Community Leadership Team") you get responsibility.
Not everyone is seeking for responsibilty, because this takes away an amount of time, that can use for coding and solving problems.

While I was writing, I came to the conclusion, that there might not be a list of things that motivate everybody.
Somethings might apply to a group of people, other things apply to others.

And since we are all (or mostly all) individuals, I think it is evident to listen to people. Therefore to understand their needs, their problems and to assist them.
Helping someone is always a good way to keep them interested.
So when you help someone, you might get help from him in the future....
Tomáš Polešovský
RE: What could motivate community members more?
2011/07/23 6:35
答え

Tomáš Polešovský

LIFERAY STAFF

ランク: Liferay Master

投稿: 539

参加年月日: 2009/02/13

最近の投稿

Hi,

My priorities are quite simple:
1, I think my personal role is to help others - I have this opinion since elementary school emoticon
2, Why I've chosen Liferay - it's because of Liferay's answer to my big question: is software really useful? Isn't SW just for SW? I like the idea of Liferay Foundation and to help others through SW.

@Corné: thanks for your 2nd message, you shifted it to different direction - much more interesting direction emoticon
@Tobias: I think you're right - everyone has different priorities and therefore different motivations, so I try to abstract a bit

My personal thoughts (hope it's not too long and boring):

There are 3 different types of people in community (not mentioning people who are not (yet) a part of it - those who just came to ask one question per their life):
A, I've come to Liferay thanks to company - as most of us I think. Most of Liferay community members need to work with Liferay because it's their daily job. They are professionals (developers, graphics, consultants ...). They get paid for the +- 8hrs a day with Liferay. They don't invest personal time due to different life priorities. And companies don't invest money to enhancing Liferay because there is no direct revenue from this activity.
B, Then there is another group of people - individuals, which invest their personal time into Liferay. Beside work (where they may or not work with Liferay) they decided to help others. They create friendships + social contacts over the basic professional background.
C, And the rest of the community members are Liferay employees emoticon

I think what we discuss here is simply how to push people from group A into group B emoticon

Try to look at the problem from different side: what to do with person, who doesn't want to help, isn't an altruist and want just to built his own carrier? Nothing.
The only thing you can do is to show him, that you are not trying to fight with him, but to be friend. To show that there is something higher. And it's even more valuated.
This should be the vision of Liferay community.

Well, what to do now? We should show what the friendship is worth.
OK, so what usually friends do? They have personal approach one another. They talk, they meet, they share problems are they are here for you if you have problem. And true friendship is equal, not just one-way. We should do the same.

I think that we could somehow define the "friendship" activities. For example person from A gets direct contact to some person from B. Person, who is in B could get direct contact to C (Liferay employee). I don't know, please continue..., my brain just turned off emoticon

So my main thought (and back to start): through SW (which can be like chemical accelerator - doesn't change reaction but is needed to start the reaction) make friendship

I hope the text isn't too crazy emoticon

Thanks

-- tom
Tobias Käfer
RE: What could motivate community members more?
2011/07/23 7:20
答え

Tobias Käfer

ランク: Regular Member

投稿: 128

参加年月日: 2008/03/28

最近の投稿

+1 for your post Tom emoticon - Does Liferay ever get Facebook Likes and Google+ +1 or do I have to contribute my hack? ;)
It's mostly about relations, as you stated.
But why? Because you get a get (or want to get) a quicker response to your problem.
I "used" some of the Liferay guys as a shourtcut to some of my problems. And it worked (Thanks to Julio, Juan and Igor).

In the end it is all about getting helped, or did I get something wrong?
Tomáš Polešovský
RE: What could motivate community members more?
2011/07/23 12:07
答え

Tomáš Polešovský

LIFERAY STAFF

ランク: Liferay Master

投稿: 539

参加年月日: 2009/02/13

最近の投稿

Thanks for your +1 emoticon I think the "Liferay-guys-shortcut" is one of great features that community could provide - nice point emoticon

But why? Because you get a get (or want to get) a quicker response to your problem.

Yes, when you are using forums. But this doesn't apply when you write a wiki page, for example.

In the end it is all about getting helped, or did I get something wrong?

I think it's not end but start emoticon For example me - I'm in group B and this is not my motivation, but for those who decide to help (to move from A to B ) it can be interesting. That's why I think this is start emoticon

I think it's more complex than just doing everything to get quicker response. We need to find the fundamental cause we could work with emoticon Some vision / purpose that others would like to share. And if I understand it well, we can't use Autonomy as motivation (it's too indiviual emoticon ), Mastery takes long time and big effort. So there is only Purpose we can work with emoticon And here we need to find shared purpose - cause not an effect - that all shares. Then we will (maybe emoticon ) know what can we build on. But maybe it's me who's missing something here now emoticon

-- tom
Corné Aussems
What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/23 14:45
答え

Corné Aussems

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 1253

参加年月日: 2006/10/03

最近の投稿

Wow your input makes me wander on whole new tracks.

So types A. are people who did not decide on their own to go with Liferay?!

Maybe that supports the few statistics we have on Liferay Contributors.
We have now exactly ( these figures are strange? are these based on % of threads !?)
10 Liferay Legends
20 Liferay Masters
40 Experts
140 Regular Members
16000+ Junior and new members

So not even 1,3% of the members has a higher rank than Junior. (still counting Lisa Simpson and Brett Randall, where have they gone?!)

We should ask James F. for some additional statistics, we could do good things with those, maybe pop a question(poll) every now and then on this subject,
to really grasp this idea who is participating now.
Maybe find some data from other FOSS projects to compare.
Tobias Käfer
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/23 15:08
答え

Tobias Käfer

ランク: Regular Member

投稿: 128

参加年月日: 2008/03/28

最近の投稿

Corné Aussems:
Wow your input makes me wander on whole new tracks.


Isn't that what it is all abaout? emoticon
Getting new ideas, new points of view....
I like such constructive discussions.
The exchange of opinions.
Tomáš Polešovský
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/23 15:49
答え

Tomáš Polešovský

LIFERAY STAFF

ランク: Liferay Master

投稿: 539

参加年月日: 2009/02/13

最近の投稿

So types A. are people who did not decide on their own to go with Liferay?!

Interesting. Haven't thought this way, but yes - you are right. They doesn't have such privileges in company to judge whether to use Liferay or not. It's always manager/architect who decide and developers that have to fight. And therefore they are not always excited as they could be emoticon

The stats are really strange. But as I can see in the forum there are not all threads from past. The oldest thread in English Development is from November 2, 2007. I suppose these stats are counted also just from these threads.

I agree - we need more accurate information/stats. But are we able to aim the group A? As I see from polls there are tens of votes. But we need thousands.
Maybe some kind of more aggressive poll would help - e.g. modal poll you can skip, but still obtrusive.

Now I've remembered a talk I've had with my colleage a few months ago. It was something like this: Liferay community is also different from other OSS communities, because there are just several Liferay hostings (we all know why - it's because of java). So (to compare with Drupal/Joomla/... and other PHP communities) most of Liferay sites are corporate. Maybe that's another insight to: why there is only 200 > Junior members . We simply don't have typical OS users, because almost nobody use Liferay on his own.
But I'm just guessing. We need more stats emoticon

-- tom
Tobias Käfer
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/23 15:58
答え

Tobias Käfer

ランク: Regular Member

投稿: 128

参加年月日: 2008/03/28

最近の投稿

Tomas Polesovsky:
We simply don't have typical OS users, because almost nobody use Liferay on his own.

I do emoticon
David H Nebinger
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/23 19:25
答え

David H Nebinger

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 5740

参加年月日: 2006/09/01

最近の投稿

Tomas Polesovsky:
So types A. are people who did not decide on their own to go with Liferay?!

Interesting. Haven't thought this way, but yes - you are right. They doesn't have such privileges in company to judge whether to use Liferay or not. It's always manager/architect who decide and developers that have to fight. And therefore they are not always excited as they could be emoticon


Speaking as the architect that made the decision in my pond, there is this separation. I found Liferay, I evaluated what it had to offer, and I brought it in-house. The rest of the developers accepted it, but I can't say they ever really got behind it at all. One guy really struggles w/ the whole hibernate/spring/liferay stack (he longs for the day when a complete program existed within a single source file).

We simply don't have typical OS users, because almost nobody use Liferay on his own.


Well, Liferay isn't pushed as a CMS, a templating system, a single administrator system, ... It's not pushed for developers like ruby on rails or any of the other frameworks/stacks.

Liferay is what it is. And for most people who don't know better, Liferay is just a portal w/ a bunch of separate windows arranged on a single browser page.

While there are some of us that use Liferay on our own, I think we'd all say it is not the easiest stack to get up and running, even if you're just hosting your own blog or something. There are many other easier and faster to implement frameworks available for those tasks.
Tomáš Polešovský
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/29 5:05
答え

Tomáš Polešovský

LIFERAY STAFF

ランク: Liferay Master

投稿: 539

参加年月日: 2009/02/13

最近の投稿

Hi,

I've computed some stats of Liferay.com forums. It's based on 16491 users, 49258 threads and 174402 messages.

Some numbers (average computed for last 12 months):
* There are 14180 unanswered threads total, 258 each month without any answer
* 874 threads are created each month by 544 users & there are 399 users that every month answer 546 foreign threads
* => 70 threads are answered by owner or *BUMP*ing emoticon

Results for threads
* 3 threads have exactly 100 messages
* 2635 threads have 10 - 100 messages
* 47209 threads have <= 10 messages
* 47209 threads have <= 10 messages
* 40993 threads have <= 5 messages
* 11018 threads have exactly 2 messages
* 14180 threads have just 1 messages - the question

Results for user-messages:
* exactly 10 users have more than 1000 messages
* 215 users created 100 - 1000 messages
* 16266 users created <= 100 messages
* 13714 users created <= 10 messages
* 11693 users created <= 5 messages
* 5439 users have just one message

Results for user-threads:
* New threads were created only by 13522 users
* 7 users created more than 100 threads
* 896 users created 10 - 100 threads
* 12619 users created <= 10 threads
* 11508 users created <= 5 threads
* 6646 users created just one thread (5173 of them have own messages only in one thread)

Results for: how many users responded to someone else's thread:
* 8188 users responded to someone else's thread
* 4 users responded in more than 1000 threads
* 75 users responded in 100 - 1000 threads
* 8109 users responded in <= 100 threads
* 7532 users responded in <= 10 threads
* 6986 users responded in <= 5 threads
* 4372 users responded in 1 thread (1866 of them have just 1 message)

Is it sufficient?

-- tom
David H Nebinger
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/07/29 6:55
答え

David H Nebinger

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 5740

参加年月日: 2006/09/01

最近の投稿

Tomas Polesovsky:
There are 14180 unanswered threads total, 258 each month without any answer


This is where stats can be twisted to suit any purpose. We could argue, based on these numbers, that there are a lot of questions that go unanswered, that people in the community are not being helpful, that they are not giving back to the community at all...

For the past few months, I've been hitting (for the most part) only those posts where there have been no replies, and answering those I feel comfortable answering.

I can tell you that many of these kinds of posts are too generic (i.e. "what is Liferay?" was one that came up not too long ago), are too specialized to a specific user (i.e. "I have my own authentication mechanism, how to I change out Liferay's with mine?" is not something common that many users would have had experience doing), but many of them are easily answered if the posters had simply RTFM (I hate saying that because I know it sounds very harsh).

To get back on topic, I don't think you can just use the number of unanswered threads as a statistic with any value; I think you'd have to include an analysis of those unanswered threads to categorize them somehow.

If you can strip out the generic questions, the specialized questions, and the RTFM questions, I think you'd find that there are very few unanswered threads in the forum.
Milan Jaroš
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/08/01 5:13
答え

Milan Jaroš

ランク: Expert

投稿: 258

参加年月日: 2008/08/18

最近の投稿

I vote for some anonymous questionnaire. Something short but useful. We need to understand our community better.

Another story for better understanding of OUR motivation:
At the very beginning I was type A (I came to company which build solutions on Liferay - it was 4.3 in that times) but as a time passed I "felt in love" with Liferay. And here I am. I started to spend my personal time to "have a fun" after few months in that company. And now? I'm not working in that company and I'm still a member (I'm very proud on Czech translation - we built up nice team; I started a Pootle with Daniel, Julio and others; I read through forums and blogs time to time). As you can see, I'm not a holly contributor and bug-killer. But I sill feel like a member.

This is what we need. We need to show to new users how great Liferay is. emoticon We need to show to the world that "Liferay is a software with a heart." emoticon
Drew Blessing
RE: What motivates community members in contributing!
2011/08/01 18:56
答え

Drew Blessing

ランク: Junior Member

投稿: 79

参加年月日: 2011/01/27

最近の投稿

Milan Jaroš:
This is what we need. We need to show to new users how great Liferay is. emoticon We need to show to the world that "Liferay is a software with a heart." emoticon


Agreed! Liferay is great!

I also came on as a Type A and quickly realized how amazing Liferay is and wanted to contribute.

I participate in the community for many of the reasons discussed throughout this thread. Ultimately though it's about giving back to Liferay and the community and collaborating with other members. The way I see it, the help I get from the community is incentive enough.

I do think though that it would be nice to devise some other system for recognizing the active community members. The current method of ranking in the forums is certainly skewed. Right now it's about when you join the community and quantity of posts rather than value.
Mika Koivisto
RE: What Motivates our Community?
2011/08/09 17:05
答え

Mika Koivisto

LIFERAY STAFF

ランク: Liferay Legend

投稿: 1494

参加年月日: 2006/08/07

最近の投稿

I guess I started from group B first using it for my own purposes. Once I fell in love with it I started promoting it at work and after several years I now belong to group C. Liferay wasn't first portal I used but rather became the #1 choice after evaluating all the portals that I could get my hands on. I still keep tabs on the competition and I'm still very pleased with my investment in Liferay and where it's heading.
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