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Corné Aussems
Pootle alternative
2013年2月11日 下午1:01
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Corné Aussems

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Hi all,

Working again some time with Pootle and finding its quirks and nuisances i stumbled upon a Pootle alternative;
Weblate opensource and free.

Browsing the project it seems to have a lot of features we really could use.
- Branches
- Versioning
- Context (originating source code)
- Commenting (that sticks)
- Glossary
- Notifications
- Git

etc.

I create a demo account for you to play with
http://demo.weblate.org
User:liferaynlug
Password:Liferay

Please take a look at it on share your thoughts?!
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年2月11日 下午1:52
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Hitoshi Ozawa

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Corné,
Personally, I really don't think changing tool is going to make too much of a difference. My customers are very large and expect fixes (not replies) within hours. The current system is taking months to get a fix on a simple translation. Changing the tool isn't going to shorten this time period.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年2月12日 上午8:00
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hey Corné,

Thanks for sending this. We have also been evaluating alternatives to solve the limitations of Pootle.

I will take a look at Weblate and will get back to you?
Milan Jaroš
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年3月16日 上午10:57
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Milan Jaroš

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Hi Jorge,
it is while ago I strived for integration of Pootle into Liferay "ecosystem". As an initiator I feel some responsibility. emoticon So, I was watching carefully Pootle mailing lists (for bugs, improvement requests, etc.). Fortunately they are finishing next version already, finally!

You are looking for better alternatives. Okay. But please consider new Pootle features too. ;) This comes from today mailing:

At Translate we’re pretty proud of this baby. Many changes have gone into
2.5.0 which follows on from 2.1.6 released more then two years ago. So many
changes that it’s quite hard to list them all.

Why so long? Well we had the Egyptian
revolution<https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%23freealaa&tbm=isch>,
a complete change in UI, and a load of features we wanted you to enjoy. It
took much longer to stabilise it for you to enjoy.

Pootle 2.5.0 has been in production with many users, so although it is a
new official release, we’ve had many people running their production server
off this code. This includes
LibreOffice<https://translations.documentfoundation.org/>,
Mozilla <http://mozilla.locamotion.org/> and
Evernote<http://translate.evernote.com/pootle/>.
So you are in good company.

*Requirements*
- Django 1.3 or 1.4
- Translate Toolkit <http://toolkit.translatehouse.org/download.html> >=
1.10.0
- lxml (now a runtime requirement)

Getting it
- pip install pootle
- Download
https://sourceforge.net/projects/translate/files/Pootle/2.5.0-rc1/

*Installation and Upgrade*
- Installation<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/installation.html>
- Upgrade<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/upgrading.html>

To be continued...
Milan Jaroš
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年3月16日 上午11:00
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Milan Jaroš

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Changes

The are by no means extensive, check the git log for more details

*User Experience*

We undertook a major UI rework – we now have a clean new translation
interface, and overview page.

In the editor:

- We follow a new approach when you edit translations, you will see a
list of units that meet some criterion.
- Translation Memory is displayed for the current unit – results are
from the Amagama <http://amagama.translatehouse.org/> server.
- Filters are easily accessible while you translate, so you can quickly
change these within the translation interface.
- Context rows are provided in the translation interface when you are
filtering and these can be hidden or expanded.
- A timeline is provided for a unit. This provides a history of the
changes in translation text, state changes, translator and dates of changes.
- Gravatars give credit to translators and suggesters.

In the overview page:

- The overview page allows you to drill down into certain types of units
matching a translation state or with an error.
- It is now easier to see what work needs attentions, as we highlight
next actions for your project.
- With editable project and language descriptions you can supply
description for projects. These are editable using Markdown, reStructured
or HTML.
- News alerts can now be sent via email to project participants.
- The overview page provides an expanded checks page that highlights all
failing checks.
- Checks are classified into categories so that more urgent ones are
highlighted to translators

*Version Control*

- Update the whole project at once avoiding slow file by file updates
- A separate
VCS_DIRECTORY<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/settings.html#std:setting-VCS_DIRECTORY>for
VCS checkout is where Pootle now does all VC related work this ensures
that we can work well with DVCS like Git.
- Detect new and removed files after a VCS update
- Management commands for VCS actions (Stuart Prescott)
- Add new files to VCS after updating from templates

*Commands*

- list_languages<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#list-languages>
- list_projects<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#list-projects>
- latest_change_id<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#latest-change-id>
- –modified-since flag for
update_stores<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#update-stores>and
sync_stores<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#sync-stores>
- commit_to_vcs<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#commit-to-vcs>
- update_from_vcs<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/server/commands.html#update-from-vcs>

*Infrastructure*

- All documentation is now on Read The
Docs<http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/pootle/en/latest/>
- We have a new website <http://pootle.translatehouse.org/> for Pootle
- We’re using Travis for Continuous
Integration<https://travis-ci.org/translate/pootle>
- All our code <https://github.com/translate/pootle> is now on Github

…and of course, loads of bugs where fixed.
by Dwayne

Sincerely,
Milan ;)
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年3月20日 上午3:14
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Jorge Ferrer

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Thanks Milan. This is definitely interesting.

I've already told the system admins to evaluate the cost of upgrading.
Milan Jaroš
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年5月22日 下午2:14
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Milan Jaroš

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Olaf Kock
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午4:24
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Olaf Kock

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AFAIK we introduced Pootle because the SVN workflow (merging files based on unknown revisions) was quite bad and error prone.

Now that SVN is no more in use and we have git, I actually consider switching off pootle and go to the standard git workflow. I understand that this requires basic git knowledge from the translators (or at least translation leads), but would also retain credit for the translator as their name would be in the commit.

I guess the only requirement is that pullrequests for a certain language should go through the translation lead(s), so that we can assume Languages unknown (to Liferay committers) have been double-checked. So, e.g. somebody with an updated klingon translation would send this to the klingon translation lead, who would validate the translation and send a pullrequest to a dedicated Liferay contact. This contact takes care of bringing the contribution into liferay's master. Add Jira issues as required, rinse, repeat.

This means that we'll require git-knowledge for translators (or at least language leads) instead of "basic web knowledge". Looking at the size of red bars in many current translations, the availability of translate.liferay.com / pootle does not help too much to end up with meaningful translations, so we might as well try another tool that doesn't even need additional installation/maintenance, because it's already in widespread use.

Thoughts? Protests? Discuss!

By the way: Kudos to the japanese and russian teams - 99-100% complete in pootle
Brendan Johan Lee
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午5:18
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Brendan Johan Lee

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Sounds like a wonderful idea if you ask me. This would make my life so much easier.

I really don't like pootle, and as of now I have an insane workflow where I've coded keyboard shortcuts in Stumpwm (my WindowManager) for 1. Opening the text in emacs and turning on flyspell 2. returning the text to the browser and hitting next. So full automation of everything other than the translation itself. (Yes, I'm a huge geek).

However, this means I have to be online to work on translations. I simply will not download the stupid xml files and work offline (xml is evil). The result is less and slower translations, simply because the time I would naturally spend on translations is time spent on airplanes, trains, at airports, etc.

A git-workflow would be wonderful, and generally just make my life much simpler, and give me more reason to put down an effort in translations.

All I can say is: Great Idea Olaf emoticon
Corné Aussems
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午7:31
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Corné Aussems

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We have 12 translation contributors
wadenuijl
timidri
rnabuurs
ruud.kluivers
rrietveld
marcellab
arnobroekhof
pmesotten
j.groenewegen
mbeelen
cquarles
kristofverbraeken

http://translate.liferay.com/pootle/nl/

Of which probably more than halve do not know the existence of Git.
Besides that Git doesn't help you at all while translating. Comparing languages, suggestions, punctuation errors.

So IMHO its a bad idea.
But hey you are from Liferay and at lib to change to a Git flow when ever you like emoticon
Brendan Johan Lee
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午7:37
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Brendan Johan Lee

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Seems to me that the best solution would be to have both options. Seems to me that that would be technically possible?
Olaf Kock
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午7:40
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Olaf Kock

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Corné Aussems:
Of which probably more than halve do not know the existence of Git.
Besides that Git doesn't help you at all while translating. Comparing languages, suggestions, punctuation errors.

So IMHO its a bad idea.
But hey you are from Liferay and at lib to change to a Git flow when ever you like emoticon


This is exactly why I wanted this suggestion to be discussed: I can only speak of myself and my preferences and have no clue about the adoption of the pootle possibilities at all. This is not about me implementing/forcing a change - in fact, I'm a mere unrelated bystander to the engineering processes, just testing the options.
So I hope to get more, positive or negative, feedback on this topic. "No feedback" would mean that nobody cares enough to answer, getting feedback at all is good!
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午7:47
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Jorge Ferrer

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Brendan Johan Lee:
Seems to me that the best solution would be to have both options. Seems to me that that would be technically possible?


I agree with Brendan.

Using Git along with Pootle was not possible in the past due to some limitations/bugs in pootle, but Daniel has found a way around it. I've been testing it lately by making changes directly through Git and it's worked perfectly.

So if you feel more comfortable with Git, go ahead and start using as you read this emoticon

BTW, If you want your translations to be in 6.2, try to send them in the next couple of weeks.
Olaf Kock
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 上午8:04
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Olaf Kock

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Jorge Ferrer:
So if you feel more comfortable with Git, go ahead and start using as you read this emoticon


Ok, that's even better than getting feedback: Getting the answer that everybody's wish has been heard.

Thanks,
Olaf
Fernando Garcez
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年8月30日 下午12:19
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Fernando Garcez

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Besides all problems in Pootle it is being a great tool for keeping the translations updated, it is accessible for everyone to contribute and has some tools that help to prevent mistakes in translations:

- Has a good visibility of what needs to be translated or reviewed
- Warnings to small mistakes (punctuation, white spaces, capitalizations, etc.. )
- Ability to quickly compare with other languages translations (this is awesome to get in context)

Moving to an only GIT solution will lose all of this.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月2日 上午2:13
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Jorge Ferrer

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Agreed. Daniel's solution includes a two way synchronization so we get the best of both worlds emoticon
Alexey Melnikov
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月2日 上午5:30
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Alexey Melnikov

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I translated 35% of russian language in one month with nice tool for offline translation Virtaal and submitted it to Pootle with xml file.
With it definitely better to translate any source. It also supports all quality checks from Pootle. And for example Virtaal helps translate identically similar rows, remembers each previously made translations. When project is completely translated, much easier fix some errors through web.
Only one minus of pootle I cannot get notifications about new suggestions or translations to check out what's new.

With git I think translation will took 2 times more and I don't know any editor which will help me to translate *.properties file.
Rasto Rehak
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月8日 下午1:37
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Rasto Rehak

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Hi
I vote for not using Git. It is really not tool for translation.

Tonight I reached 100% of Slovak translation. It would be nice to be notified before the version 6.2 GA is released so the translation contains also latest changes.

Rasto.
Sampsa Sohlman
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月8日 下午1:52
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Sampsa Sohlman

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Good work! I have been working also for Finnish and that is close to done.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月9日 上午3:45
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Jorge Ferrer

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Hey Rasto,

It's awesome to here you've reached 100% of Slovak, thanks a lot for your work!

We plan to release the first RC next week so from then on only key specific fixes will be backported. That will include translations since there are a lot of people working on them right now, but of course the sooner the translations are ready the better.
Denis Signoretto
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月11日 上午1:35
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Denis Signoretto

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IMHO I think pootle has some very useful features that I wouldn't loose, e.g. review dashboard, fuzzy, automatic checks (simplecaps, endpunct, etc etc).

I agree with Corné Aussems, not all translator are technician and git can be too difficult.

Regards,
Denis.
Brendan Johan Lee
RE: Pootle alternative
2013年9月11日 下午2:22
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Brendan Johan Lee

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Bah. I have way to much to do these days. Signed up for the beta program, and all I've had time to do was install.

however.... I've had two very hectic evenings now, so the Norwegian translation is at 100% (well, it says 99% but everything is translated. Seems that the youtube portlet translation is being nasty for some reason). Hopefully I'll manage to get a little bit more quality control done before the final date.

And yes, I agree. It would be very nice to get notified about GA-releases in time to get translations in place as well.