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Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed March 24, 2012 12:31 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa March 25, 2012 5:01 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed March 25, 2012 6:01 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? David H Nebinger March 25, 2012 6:16 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed March 25, 2012 7:24 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa March 25, 2012 9:09 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed March 27, 2012 6:51 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa March 25, 2012 6:19 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Scott Thomas April 4, 2012 11:54 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed April 4, 2012 1:35 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? David H Nebinger April 4, 2012 2:28 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed April 4, 2012 2:47 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Scott Thomas April 4, 2012 2:44 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa April 4, 2012 5:40 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Darko Joseph Hojnik April 6, 2012 4:17 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? David H Nebinger April 6, 2012 5:24 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Juan Gonzalez April 6, 2012 5:28 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Darko Joseph Hojnik April 6, 2012 8:57 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa April 6, 2012 6:18 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? James Falkner April 6, 2012 7:05 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Imran Ahmed April 6, 2012 8:52 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? James Falkner April 6, 2012 10:11 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? David H Nebinger April 6, 2012 1:43 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Scott Thomas April 6, 2012 3:04 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa April 7, 2012 1:14 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Richard Hering April 9, 2012 11:39 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? James Falkner April 9, 2012 11:41 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hamish Campbell April 4, 2012 12:58 PM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Jelmer Kuperus April 7, 2012 6:13 AM
RE: Is 6.1 production ready? Hitoshi Ozawa April 7, 2012 6:33 AM
Imran Ahmed
Is 6.1 production ready?
March 24, 2012 12:31 PM
Answer

Imran Ahmed

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It all happened so fast.. I will try to provide the steps as best as I can.

- Downloaded the tomcat bundle from the download page
- Started it by clicking startup.bat.
- Console started doing stuff.. browser window pops with basic config screen
- Accidentally typed a wrong email format and pressed submit (test@liferay.commyemail@mycompany.com)
- Showed an error with an infinite wait cycle.
- Forced refresh.. bunch of errors on console
- Cannot login emoticon
- Stopped, deleted data dir, created a new empty data dir, restarted .. wont start, tons of errors on console(Nogroupfound etc)

Seriously?? Thats the level of testing for an enterprise grade portal? Cant handle a wrong email address?
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 25, 2012 5:01 AM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

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Tomcat bundle is just for demos and not meant for production.
The problem with basic configuration dialog has already been mentioned here several times in the forum - it's unusable.

- Stopped, deleted data dir, created a new empty data dir, restarted .. wont start, tons of errors on console(Nogroupfound etc)


I've mentioned this in the forum here before. The only solution I've found was to re-extract the demo tomcat package and start over.

Thats the level of testing for an enterprise grade portal? Cant handle a wrong email address?


CE version is just a development version. You'll need to purchase an EE version to get the enterprise grade portal.
Imran Ahmed
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 25, 2012 6:01 PM
Answer

Imran Ahmed

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CE version is just a development version. You'll need to purchase an EE version to get the enterprise grade portal.


Did not know that. Thanks for the clarification.
David H Nebinger
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 25, 2012 6:16 PM
Answer

David H Nebinger

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Well, for further clarification I have a different perspective here...

I think EE is appropriate for internet/extranet installations, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't leverage CE in an intranet scenario...

EE gets all of the patches and bugfixes and is typically more secure than CE. For an intranet portal, I think you could survive w/o the extra security (unless your running a hacking business where your internal users enjoy circumventing a system).
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 25, 2012 6:19 PM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

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FYI: There seems to be a memory leak in CE version while EE does not. It's corrected in the 6.0x EE version but not in the 6.1.x CE version. I don't think Liferay.com is trying to make CE version enterprise ready OOTB.

http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/13137069
Imran Ahmed
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 25, 2012 7:24 PM
Answer

Imran Ahmed

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typically more secure than CE


This too is new to me that CE is less secure than EE. Is that deliberately so? Is this, by chance, officially documented somewhere or is this from your experience?
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 25, 2012 9:09 PM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

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Security patches are made available to EE users when the issue is made visible in the jira (note, security defect issues are hidden until they are fixed), but not to CE users. CE users have to keep alert for security bugs and patch it up themselves or wait for the next release.

I think that's fair though because most other companies are doing the same thing. For example, IBM is contributing to Apache projects but making it better for their commercial products.
Imran Ahmed
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
March 27, 2012 6:51 AM
Answer

Imran Ahmed

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Thanks for the clarifications. Appreciate it.
Scott Thomas
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 11:54 AM
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Scott Thomas

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Hitoshi Ozawa:
Tomcat bundle is just for demos and not meant for production.


Is that based on your opinion of Tomcat or your opinion on the CE version of Liferay?
Hamish Campbell
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 12:58 PM
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Hamish Campbell

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The is a real issue with the CE addition of Lifray, and the business model that separates this from the EE version. The forums are littered with issues on upgrading, here are a few:

http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/13324678
http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/13041511

And we are having serious issues with our local liferay rep with setting up an independent Liferay support group. We have been using liferay for 3 years and are a small not-for profit building a open-source media project. Couldn’t use the EE version even if we had the funding to do it as it is closed source, so we are in a real bind with this current #borked state of the software. If the liferay crew are not more careful they might end up damaging the community that liferay is based on.
Imran Ahmed
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 1:35 PM
Answer

Imran Ahmed

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@Scott,
We have used Tomcat+Liferay in production, till about LR 6.0.6 version that includes TC 6.x, with no issues. Not sure if 6.1 (has Tomcat 7) has introduced any limitations.

@Hamish
6.1 does seem to have major issues. We recently decided not to upgrade because of problems similar to the links you provided(and elsewhere). Also, lately I am seeing a different tone of responses from major/senior LR supporters/staff that seems to say that "don't expect too much of CE, buy EE if you need stability". IMHO, LR seems to have reached a level of maturity, success and prominence where it is less dependent on the community whereas the community is more dependent on LR. They are listed alongside the big boys in the portal space and to keep that up they need cash(a lot of it). And they can only get cash by selling EE, services etc.emoticon. My prediction is that in couple of years CE will be phased out or made so unusable that there will be no choice left but to either move to another platform or purchase EE.
David H Nebinger
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 2:28 PM
Answer

David H Nebinger

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Imran Ahmed:
Also, lately I am seeing a different tone of responses from major/senior LR supporters/staff that seems to say that "don't expect too much of CE, buy EE if you need stability". IMHO, LR seems to have reached a level of maturity, success and prominence where it is less dependent on the community whereas the community is more dependent on LR.


6.1 was a break from the typical deployment pattern in the past. Liferay used to release CE and EE at the same time, with significant amounts of testing before the version was released. Subsequent to the release, bugs that were found were released as patches immediately to EE, but CE users either had to patch themselves or wait for the next dot release of CE.

6.1 changed all that. CE was released significantly before EE was ready, released in the form of RC. So many people from the community jumped on board that issues, bugs, etc. started hitting the forum and Jira. This time, since EE wasn't released, as Liferay fixed the issues the fixes were queued up for the eventual EE release. CE users were again left to patch themselves (BTW I think this is totally fair since you're getting it for free and not paying for maintenance).

For all intents and purposes, 6.1 CE was a big beta test used to firm up the EE release. Since 6.1 EE has been released, we're now back in the same cycle of getting patches for EE and CE users must either self-patch or wait for the next dot release.

EE has always been the supported version, and CE was meant to give users/organizations a means to try out Liferay at no cost. Some users/organizations can actually get by on the CE version w/ self patching and working around known issues.

But if you are using Liferay in a production environment exposed to the Internet, EE is definitely the version you should go with. Not because CE is a bad product or anything, but because there is no support for the CE version any bug fixes (especially those related to possible security flaws) will not be pushed out to you.
Imran Ahmed
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 2:47 PM
Answer

Imran Ahmed

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CE users were again left to patch themselves (BTW I think this is totally fair since you're getting it for free and not paying for maintenance).


I really like LR as a product so please do not take it as being provocative for what I am going to say below.

When CE "suckers" test the product and report the issues they are spending lots of time which, believe it or not, equates to $$$. Many other "free" users are promoting the product in their organizations and elsewhere which is same as having a large sales organization spreading the word, except that LR does not pay them a dime. Many other "free" users are providing tech support on forums and elsewhere, writing wikis, blogs, bashing competitors, defending LR etc.

So I do no not agree that they are getting it for free. People are paying for it in different ways. Shortchanging the CE users doesn't seem to be a right strategy.

Btw, I have no issue LR having a paid model. I fully support it(though the way they are selling it is a discussion for another time). Software cannot and should not be free. After all people doing all that work need to be pay for their mortgages and send kids to school too emoticon
Scott Thomas
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 2:44 PM
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Scott Thomas

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David H Nebinger:
6.1 changed all that. CE was released significantly before EE was ready, released in the form of RC. So many people from the community jumped on board that issues, bugs, etc. started hitting the forum and Jira. This time, since EE wasn't released, as Liferay fixed the issues the fixes were queued up for the eventual EE release. CE users were again left to patch themselves (BTW I think this is totally fair since you're getting it for free and not paying for maintenance).

For all intents and purposes, 6.1 CE was a big beta test used to firm up the EE release. Since 6.1 EE has been released, we're now back in the same cycle of getting patches for EE and CE users must either self-patch or wait for the next dot release.


I have no problem with taking on certain responsibilities when working with a free open source product. I would think that from a marketing perspective you should be more careful with labeling. Most open source projects will differentiate between the most recent stable release and an RC or Beta release. You should direct users who are trying before they buy to the stable release so they are left with a good impression.

Now that I am armed with this knowledge I will try the previous version and see if I have better luck with it.
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 4, 2012 5:40 PM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

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Next version of CE is planned near the end of this month. This should be more stable. Liferay changed release pattern since version 6.
They are releasing CE versions early so community can test it and give feedback. (Other projects do this in beta testing,)

After this, they are releasing EE and then a fixed up version of CE. It was the same with 6.0.x. 6.0.x wasn't too stable until 6.0.6.

I think the release of CE that's planned to come out this month is production ready. I'm still going with 6.0.6 for the current installations
at hand, but planning on switching in a month or two.

BTW, if Liferay.com needed extra cash, they can already go IPO. They haven't and I don't they have any immediate plan to.
Darko Joseph Hojnik
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 4:17 AM
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Darko Joseph Hojnik

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David H Nebinger:

6.1 was a break from the typical deployment pattern in the past. Liferay used to release CE and EE at the same time, with significant amounts of testing before the version was released. Subsequent to the release, bugs that were found were released as patches immediately to EE, but CE users either had to patch themselves or wait for the next dot release of CE.

6.1 changed all that. CE was released significantly before EE was ready, released in the form of RC. So many people from the community jumped on board that issues, bugs, etc. started hitting the forum and Jira. This time, since EE wasn't released, as Liferay fixed the issues the fixes were queued up for the eventual EE release. CE users were again left to patch themselves (BTW I think this is totally fair since you're getting it for free and not paying for maintenance).

For all intents and purposes, 6.1 CE was a big beta test used to firm up the EE release. Since 6.1 EE has been released, we're now back in the same cycle of getting patches for EE and CE users must either self-patch or wait for the next dot release.

EE has always been the supported version, and CE was meant to give users/organizations a means to try out Liferay at no cost. Some users/organizations can actually get by on the CE version w/ self patching and working around known issues.

But if you are using Liferay in a production environment exposed to the Internet, EE is definitely the version you should go with. Not because CE is a bad product or anything, but because there is no support for the CE version any bug fixes (especially those related to possible security flaws) will not be pushed out to you.


Hmm so I'm one of 99%... :/

To get the latest fixed code what would be the best URL?

git://github.com/liferay/liferay-portal.git
http://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/branches/6.1.x/
http://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/trunk/

cheers Darko
David H Nebinger
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 5:24 AM
Answer

David H Nebinger

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Darko Joseph Hojnik:
To get the latest fixed code what would be the best URL?


Well that's a different story entirely. Code is checked in, but is not guaranteed to result in a clean build or a runnable portal... To Liferay, the repositories represent a work in progress towards a goal (i.e. 6.1.1 or whatever they're going to call it), it is not a repository of working code.

Hit any of them at you're own risk...
Juan Gonzalez
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 5:28 AM
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Juan Gonzalez

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Darko Joseph Hojnik:
David H Nebinger:

6.1 was a break from the typical deployment pattern in the past. Liferay used to release CE and EE at the same time, with significant amounts of testing before the version was released. Subsequent to the release, bugs that were found were released as patches immediately to EE, but CE users either had to patch themselves or wait for the next dot release of CE.

6.1 changed all that. CE was released significantly before EE was ready, released in the form of RC. So many people from the community jumped on board that issues, bugs, etc. started hitting the forum and Jira. This time, since EE wasn't released, as Liferay fixed the issues the fixes were queued up for the eventual EE release. CE users were again left to patch themselves (BTW I think this is totally fair since you're getting it for free and not paying for maintenance).

For all intents and purposes, 6.1 CE was a big beta test used to firm up the EE release. Since 6.1 EE has been released, we're now back in the same cycle of getting patches for EE and CE users must either self-patch or wait for the next dot release.

EE has always been the supported version, and CE was meant to give users/organizations a means to try out Liferay at no cost. Some users/organizations can actually get by on the CE version w/ self patching and working around known issues.

But if you are using Liferay in a production environment exposed to the Internet, EE is definitely the version you should go with. Not because CE is a bad product or anything, but because there is no support for the CE version any bug fixes (especially those related to possible security flaws) will not be pushed out to you.


Hmm so I'm one of 99%... :/

To get the latest fixed code what would be the best URL?

git://github.com/liferay/liferay-portal.git
http://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/branches/6.1.x/
http://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/trunk/

cheers Darko


Hi Darko,

http://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/branches/6.1.x/

is actually 6.1.1 GA2, and AFAIK is very stable. I would wait for its final release in few days/weeks though.
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 6:18 AM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

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Hmm so I'm one of 99%... :/


Darko,
If you're going to be using the CE version, be sure to contribute back to the community so Liferay will stay open and bugs fixed.
It's up to the community to report bugs so they would get fixed in the next release. Without community members reporting them it,
they'll never get fixed and we all lose from it.
James Falkner
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 7:05 AM
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James Falkner

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Hitoshi Ozawa:
Hmm so I'm one of 99%... :/


Darko,
If you're going to be using the CE version, be sure to contribute back to the community so Liferay will stay open and bugs fixed.
It's up to the community to report bugs so they would get fixed in the next release. Without community members reporting them it,
they'll never get fixed and we all lose from it.


Hi all,

This has been a very good conversation, thanks for keeping it courteous and respectful! I just wanted to chime in with my perspective, from a community manager's perspective (where I have the ability to see what happens internally and externally).

Not much has changed from the early days through to 6.1. Liferay still produces the CE release in the same vain as before, nothing has changed, and there is no grand evil plan that started with 6.1 to get people hooked on buggy software, only to demand payment for EE before you get fixes. IMO 6.1 CE GA1 is much more stable than 6.0 CE GA1. I think having more RCs and Beta releases helped tremendously in that regard. And since the source is open, even after a CE release (as already discussed) you can get fixes if you are willing to work at it, or you can pay someone else (Liferay) to provide fixes for you in an easier-to-apply format (i.e. a binary patch, or "Fix Pack" as we are now calling it), or you can wait until the next CE release.

Ultimately, my (and I hope my company's) goal is to get more people to use (and like!) Liferay. Everyone that starts with Liferay starts with the CE edition (why wouldn't you? It costs nothing to try), so it would be against our best interests if we were to produce a crippled/buggy version that is unusable for more than a small pet project. And for many, CE is "good enough". The reason it's "good enough"? Because of our awesome community, that spend their time and money helping to make it that way, which is what an open community is so good at. Yes, it does cost you time and money to find, report, or fix bugs in Liferay CE. But then everyone benefits, and you get a chance to help advance the technology (and be respected and admired for it!). And BTW, "good enough" means it's good enough to use with no further requirements for features or support. At the time of a CE release, it is as good as we as a community (both internal and external) can make it, we do not have a secret EE release with many more bugfixes and features just waiting to be released a few months later. So you're getting the state of the art with every CE release.

Liferay's roots remain in open access, open technology, open yadda-yadda-yadda, so if we decided to phase out the open source / CE editions, we'd lose the 65,000-strong army behind the technology, we'd even have to change the company tagline to "Enterprise. Open Source. For Life. Well, just kidding about the Open Source bit!", and that wouldn't be fun at all emoticon
Imran Ahmed
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 8:52 AM
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Imran Ahmed

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Thank you for providing the "official" response.

You do realize(I hope) that lot of misgivings and opinions are formed based on responses posted by members of the community. Specifically if a response(sounding like the official or having internal knowledge) comes from "Liferay Legends", then lot of community members tend to believe in what they say. After all they are legends and they must surely know more than us mere mortals emoticon. Perhaps you may want to set some community guidelines (or assert if already exists) so that non-Liferay folks try to refrain from speaking or opining on behalf of Liferay or at least Liferay community moderators should interject a bit sooner before presumptions, opinions and speculations get out of hand.

I do hope that you will be able to take the common feedback back to the LR team that a GA product is not a Beta product and there are certain expectations around a product labeled as GA. And, if CE is not intended for production, it must be stated so. Something like "The CE version is intended for testing purpose only and not intended for production use. Use it in production environment at your own risk." would definitely help with setting the right expectations. This really was the crux of my initial post.

Finally, Liferay has done a fantastic job in creating a powerful technology and establishing leadership in the Portal space. That is evident from the type of conversation that is happening. IMHO people now view Liferay in the same light and respect as they would view products coming from established open source providers such as Apache Foundation or other large commercial product companies. It is certainly time to tread carefully, while transitioning large scale to the enterprise, without staining the reputation with the 65000 community members and continuing to churn out stable products.
Darko Joseph Hojnik
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 8:57 AM
Answer

Darko Joseph Hojnik

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Juan Gonzalez P:


http://svn.liferay.com/repos/public/portal/branches/6.1.x/

is actually 6.1.1 GA2, and AFAIK is very stable. I would wait for its final release in few days/weeks though.



Right I guess so too. Compiled and successful deployed on Apache Tomcat 6 today in the morning and at afternoon on Jboss 5.1. I'am starting my project with the new Codebase now. Thank you guys

cheers Darko
James Falkner
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 10:11 AM
Answer

James Falkner

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Imran Ahmed:
Thank you for providing the "official" response.

You do realize(I hope) that lot of misgivings and opinions are formed based on responses posted by members of the community. Specifically if a response(sounding like the official or having internal knowledge) comes from "Liferay Legends", then lot of community members tend to believe in what they say. After all they are legends and they must surely know more than us mere mortals emoticon. Perhaps you may want to set some community guidelines (or assert if already exists) so that non-Liferay folks try to refrain from speaking or opining on behalf of Liferay or at least Liferay community moderators should interject a bit sooner before presumptions, opinions and speculations get out of hand.


This is good feedback, I shall remember it and rely this at our next Community Leadership meeting (which, if you are on the team, or wish to be on it, and reading this, I'm shooting for end of April for our next one). It'd be good if we as community leaders are able to "nip it in the bud" as they say.


I do hope that you will be able to take the common feedback back to the LR team that a GA product is not a Beta product and there are certain expectations around a product labeled as GA. And, if CE is not intended for production, it must be stated so. Something like "The CE version is intended for testing purpose only and not intended for production use. Use it in production environment at your own risk." would definitely help with setting the right expectations. This really was the crux of my initial post.


"Production Environment" means different things. Do you mean a non-profit's website with 20 users and an open-source, tech-savvy webmaster, a small-sized consulting business with 50 employees and an external client portal, a 1000-person political campaign site, or a 20,000 employee large company intranet, or a 500M social networking site that rhymes with "lacebook"? emoticon

If you don't want 24x7 support, indemnification, enterprise plugins/integrations, patches, etc (all those things listed on the CE vs. EE page) then by all means, use CE for production for your Awesome Huge Website! emoticon



Finally, Liferay has done a fantastic job in creating a powerful technology and establishing leadership in the Portal space. That is evident from the type of conversation that is happening. IMHO people now view Liferay in the same light and respect as they would view products coming from established open source providers such as Apache Foundation or other large commercial product companies. It is certainly time to tread carefully, while transitioning large scale to the enterprise, without staining the reputation with the 65000 community members and continuing to churn out stable products.


Wow.. that's great to hear! It's nice to be seen in that light. The funny thing is, nothing has really changed in the way we approach open source and our product releases, but what HAS changed are the kinds of questions being asked, and as you stated the view of Liferay from outside. So from that perspective I think we as a community and as a company need to respond a bit differently now.
David H Nebinger
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 1:43 PM
Answer

David H Nebinger

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The problem as I see it is what the first-time visitors encounter when using the CE download.

It was a similar situation for 6.0, when it came out. The first few CE releases were usable, but they did have problems. By 6.0.5 and especially 6.0.6 many of the bugs and issues identified in 6.0 had been worked out, and 6.0.6 has proven to be pretty stable.

Having been through the process before, as an experienced Liferay user and developer I expect problems in 6.1 GA 1. It's the first real release targeted for the CE user, but there will be subsequent releases coming that address bugs and issues found in the 6.1 line. The next GA release is coming out soon, and I wouldn't expect it to be the last.

But I know this. I'm happy w/ 6.1 CE and think it is yet another great step forward in a great project/product that, unlike many other portal offerings, keeps growing and adapting to changes in the general web atmosphere.

What I noticed w/ the 6.1 release, and especially w/ the initial RC candidates, it seemed like there were a lot of people jumping on at that time that didn't have that experience and knowledge, didn't know what they were getting themselves into. Forum thread counts jumped like crazy w/ various issues, and it seemed like there were so many more than in previous releases (probably seemed like more since the community keeps growing). I think that there were a lot of folks jumping on the 6.1 release thinking they were going to get something as stable as 6.0.6, and were somewhat taken aback that it is not so.

Some folks are here and want to cut their teeth on the early 6.1 releases. Some folks will choose the initial 6.1 and be willing to patch and upgrade as the 6.1 series stabilizes. I'm more than willing to help them through these issues as much as I can...

That said, there are some folks that get here and want to use a stable release, aren't willing to be on the bleeding edge, don't want to or can't patch here and there to work around bugs, etc. For these folks, I would say they should use 6.0 and wait for 6.1 to get squared away.

The problem for me (at least) is how to phrase such a statement w/o appearing to come off sounding like I'm saying 6.1 has problems or 6.1 is not production ready or 6.1 is this or that (all of which I do not really believe). It's really a matter of trying to gauge what the person is willing to tolerate, how much experience they have (i.e. their post count is in the low single digits), and give them a push in the direction of the best environment for their situation...
Scott Thomas
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 6, 2012 3:04 PM
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Scott Thomas

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David H Nebinger:
The problem as I see it is what the first-time visitors encounter when using the CE download.

It was a similar situation for 6.0, when it came out. The first few CE releases were usable, but they did have problems. By 6.0.5 and especially 6.0.6 many of the bugs and issues identified in 6.0 had been worked out, and 6.0.6 has proven to be pretty stable.

I think that there were a lot of folks jumping on the 6.1 release thinking they were going to get something as stable as 6.0.6, and were somewhat taken aback that it is not so.

That said, there are some folks that get here and want to use a stable release, aren't willing to be on the bleeding edge, don't want to or can't patch here and there to work around bugs, etc. For these folks, I would say they should use 6.0 and wait for 6.1 to get squared away.

The problem for me (at least) is how to phrase such a statement w/o appearing to come off sounding like I'm saying 6.1 has problems or 6.1 is not production ready or 6.1 is this or that (all of which I do not really believe). It's really a matter of trying to gauge what the person is willing to tolerate, how much experience they have (i.e. their post count is in the low single digits), and give them a push in the direction of the best environment for their situation...


I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence above. It should be very clear to any user, but especially first time users, which release is considered the most stable.

Speaking as a person with low single digit post counts, I do currently lack the experience with Liferay to be troubleshooting issues and want to be using the most stable release. I have enough other things to learn about the product. From what I have seen here 6.0.6 is the "current stable release" (i.e. Production Ready) and 6.1.x is the "latest release" (.i.e. not production ready and deserves thorough testing before making it so). I guess I don't understand your reluctance to say it is not production ready if you also say people should use 6.0 if they don't want to be messing with patches to work around bugs and suggest that they stick with 6.0 until 6.1 gets squared away. I might be tempted to say that 6.1 CE will not be considered stable and production ready until 6.1 EE is released. I don't consider any of this nomenclature to be a negative thing. Setting expectations properly up front will make for a better overall experience.

I forget who it was that first made the suggestion to drop back to 6.0, but I am grateful because I am having much better success with that release. I think Liferay is a really good product and I know many people feel that way as well. It is the large quantity of positive opinions that brought me here to give it a try.
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 7, 2012 1:14 AM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

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That's the more reason why these forums are important - it provides important information to make people's experience with Liferay much better.
I think more people are actually using Liferay instead of just testing it, because they are getting more successful results from information provided in the forums. emoticon
Jelmer Kuperus
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 7, 2012 6:13 AM
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Jelmer Kuperus

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I've used Liferay for a while now, and it's buggyness has been a consistent factor throughout. All ce releases i have used, have not met my bar for production readyness and i do not expect this to change any time soon.

But to be honest I don't expect the EE version to be much better, based on the number of bugs we encountered on ce that where still present in trunk.

There's basically two ways to get a stable software product.

1. Have only kick ass engineers work on your project, that don't make lots of errors to begin with and write lots and lots of unit / integration tests
2. Have monkey's work on your project, don't test but have a large community that catches all the bugs and fix those in bugfix releases that you make in rapid succession

Liferay right now falls in neither category.
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 7, 2012 6:33 AM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

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Join Date: March 23, 2010

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I've used Liferay for a while now, and it's buggyness has been a consistent factor throughout. All ce releases i have used, have not met my bar for production readyness and i do not expect this to change any time soon.


Most of my users don't require all of Liferay's functionalities. I'm just disabling unnecessary features and patching up bugs on those I need.

IMHO, the main difference between CE and EE is not on number of bugs they have but whether Liferay.com will provide the bug fixes. In the CE version, users have to patch the bugs themselves if it's needed or wait for the next release. In EE, Liferay.com provided patches.
Richard Hering
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 9, 2012 11:39 AM
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Richard Hering

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James Falkner:
Hitoshi Ozawa:
Hmm so I'm one of 99%... :/


Darko,
If you're going to be using the CE version, be sure to contribute back to the community so Liferay will stay open and bugs fixed.
It's up to the community to report bugs so they would get fixed in the next release. Without community members reporting them it,
they'll never get fixed and we all lose from it.


Hi all,

This has been a very good conversation, thanks for keeping it courteous and respectful! I just wanted to chime in with my perspective, from a community manager's perspective (where I have the ability to see what happens internally and externally).

Not much has changed from the early days through to 6.1. Liferay still produces the CE release in the same vain as before, nothing has changed, and there is no grand evil plan that started with 6.1 to get people hooked on buggy software, only to demand payment for EE before you get fixes. IMO 6.1 CE GA1 is much more stable than 6.0 CE GA1. I think having more RCs and Beta releases helped tremendously in that regard. And since the source is open, even after a CE release (as already discussed) you can get fixes if you are willing to work at it, or you can pay someone else (Liferay) to provide fixes for you in an easier-to-apply format (i.e. a binary patch, or "Fix Pack" as we are now calling it), or you can wait until the next CE release.

Ultimately, my (and I hope my company's) goal is to get more people to use (and like!) Liferay. Everyone that starts with Liferay starts with the CE edition (why wouldn't you? It costs nothing to try), so it would be against our best interests if we were to produce a crippled/buggy version that is unusable for more than a small pet project. And for many, CE is "good enough". The reason it's "good enough"? Because of our awesome community, that spend their time and money helping to make it that way, which is what an open community is so good at. Yes, it does cost you time and money to find, report, or fix bugs in Liferay CE. But then everyone benefits, and you get a chance to help advance the technology (and be respected and admired for it!). And BTW, "good enough" means it's good enough to use with no further requirements for features or support. At the time of a CE release, it is as good as we as a community (both internal and external) can make it, we do not have a secret EE release with many more bugfixes and features just waiting to be released a few months later. So you're getting the state of the art with every CE release.

Liferay's roots remain in open access, open technology, open yadda-yadda-yadda, so if we decided to phase out the open source / CE editions, we'd lose the 65,000-strong army behind the technology, we'd even have to change the company tagline to "Enterprise. Open Source. For Life. Well, just kidding about the Open Source bit!", and that wouldn't be fun at all emoticon


Thanks James for these comments. They really help to keep the open source paranoia at bay! I would though like to head up on a problem which has been going on in London, where we are trying to build just such a liferay community as you recognise as so important. Here's a mail I sent to Brian Chan with all the details:

[...]

I haven't had a reply as yet from Brian, but I wonder if similar fire-fighting to that proposed in your post could be applied to this as well!

Many thanks.
James Falkner
RE: Is 6.1 production ready?
April 9, 2012 11:41 AM
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James Falkner

LIFERAY STAFF

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Richard Hering:

Thanks James for these comments. They really help to keep the open source paranoia at bay! I would though like to head up on a problem which has been going on in London, where we are trying to build just such a liferay community as you recognise as so important. Here's a mail I sent to Brian Chan with all the details:

[...]

I haven't had a reply as yet from Brian, but I wonder if similar fire-fighting to that proposed in your post could be applied to this as well!

Many thanks.


Hey Richard,

Thanks for the note. It's off-topic for this thread, so I shall follow up with you in a separate email thread so we can figure out how to resolve it!