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Brian Kim
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 12, 2012 11:22 AM
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Brian Kim

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Expert

Posts: 319

Join Date: August 16, 2004

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The point about lack of documentation is valid. It is not fair to claim it is "open source" if you are going to obfuscate the code before you put it out. Although obviously not at this extreme, I am sure Liferay.com is conscious that their code is sufficiently difficult to read that the EE support becomes the only way forward.

This is the fundamental prob with "Community Editions" .. when comparing to proper .org contributions.


At a Server Side conference dating back to 2005 or 2006 (I forget), one of the questions was whether we were going to have documentation for our product. At the time, we were probably less than 10 people and were obviously constrained by our own limitations. We're always trying to improve our documentation, but the truth is that it takes time to do this right. Take a look at our Liferay in Action book - that took over a year to actually complete. In parallel, we also made sure to beef up our Documentation pages.

Contrary to what you think, we're actually doing our best to make documentation better and are by no means trying to make reading the source code difficult to read. If that were the case, you'd see a lot of spaghetti code everywhere, super long method names, or even code that spills to 180 columns. And to be honest, if we were in the business of making our source code hard to read on purpose, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be in business in the years to come because people wouldn't want to use us. We've hired guys to add Javadocs to our source code, but that takes time too. Please be patient with us, we're doing our best.
Linus Sphinx
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 12, 2012 11:35 AM
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Linus Sphinx

Rank: Junior Member

Posts: 84

Join Date: August 12, 2010

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Pradeep Pandey:

Hey Hillston
It may be hard for you to understand.".what is liferay". If you want to survive in IT industries then You have to do smart work not hard work

Some real good advice there.

"It is a poor craftsman indeed who blames his tools."
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 12, 2012 2:46 PM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7954

Join Date: March 23, 2010

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Actually, there are many big name universities offering free courses, including from MIT, Harvard, Berkely, Stanford :
http://ocw.mit.edu , http://edx.org , http://coursera.org , just to get you started


Yes, to some but not all courses. So liferay.com is making CE available for free and charging for EE like these institutions are providing some free courses and charging for others. Institutions also need money to operate as liferay.com.

The point about lack of documentation is valid. It is not fair to claim it is "open source" if you are going to obfuscate the code before you put it out. Although obviously not at this extreme, I am sure Liferay.com is conscious that their code is sufficiently difficult to read that the EE support becomes the only way forward.


Well, I don't have any trouble now and I only have CE and haven't taken any liferay.com's training. There are now more documentations now compared to when I started so it should be easier now.
I don't know why I can and why you can't.
William Gosse
RE: Liferay sucks!! - may be not so.
September 12, 2012 3:03 PM
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William Gosse

Rank: Regular Member

Posts: 108

Join Date: July 4, 2010

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I think it should be mentioned that Liferay is a deployment platform and not just a framework for web app development. As a platform it provides a tremendous amount of infrastructure out of the box that can be used immediately without any custom development.

Liferay also doesn't restrict from using other web development frameworks, such as Icefaces and Vaadin, for developing your custom portlets. I know that both of these frameworks are Ajax enabled.
Jack Bakker
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 12, 2012 3:13 PM
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Jack Bakker

Rank: Liferay Master

Posts: 643

Join Date: January 3, 2010

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Interesting how attractive the subject of this thread is. Initially I was annoyed but this thread has solicited much contribution - albeit some via mindless braindump.

And on that note:

I personally am appreciative of having so much opensource and freeware available, including Liferay CE. Just looking at all the opensource libraries involved shows just how cool an assembly Liferay really is.

Yeah things can improve and evolve including wrt documentation. Not being that good at documentation myself, I am in awe of many who try and also am in awe of those like David and Hitoshi and others who take the time to help people along.

Code being difficult to read ? The more I review Liferay code, the more I learn about what good coding and architecture is.

But perhaps I am going off topic... and back to work I go...
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 12, 2012 3:20 PM
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Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7954

Join Date: March 23, 2010

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Brian left some facts out. To be fair, I'll fill it in.

Liferay.com used to sell their documentations including administrative guides.
They, nevertheless, have "seen the light" and are now providing their documentations online.

So, it's true the Liferay.com was trying to make money by selling their documentations but many other projects do it.
I'll also add in that what Liferay.com was selling is less then the current online documentations. So, I don't think it's
true that they are still trying to sell EE by not offering documentations.
Brian Kim
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 12, 2012 5:05 PM
Answer

Brian Kim

LIFERAY STAFF

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Posts: 319

Join Date: August 16, 2004

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Actually, to clarify even further, we only used to charge for the hard copy versions of our administrator guides, and that's because we used a third-party publishing company. The soft copy version was always free.

You might be thinking of Liferay in Action, which is something you do have to purchase, and that's because we worked with Manning Publications Co. to ensure that we delivered a higher-quality book than what is out there by other publishers. But we were and are still committed to continually improving the online documentation, because the truth is, we're not trying to build a business selling documentation. =)
Johan de jong
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 13, 2012 12:16 AM
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Johan de jong

Rank: Junior Member

Posts: 36

Join Date: February 6, 2012

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What is the problem with Liferay's documentation?

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM?

Main problem is that everyone is trying to gain profit on liferay, and some are doing this by copying the java-docs to their server. This has resulted in tons of Google-hits on the first google pages for the same java-doc stored on different servers.
So if you want to know how a specific function "functions" and you search for it on google, you have to skip the first 200 results because they are all the same.

Liferay is a superb platform, but you need to spend time on it. Sorry guys... this is not highschool were you can send your dad to, to complain about a teacher.
If you can't get something running, it is you. only you that fails.

If Liferay was document to the max, a lot of us wouldn't make any money with their job emoticon

If anybody would post the construction of their portlet we all could benefit, but who benefits of the portlet...
Jelmer Kuperus
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 13, 2012 5:01 AM
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Jelmer Kuperus

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 1192

Join Date: March 10, 2010

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Liferay is a superb platform, but you need to spend time on it


Everytime i see a comment like this i am compelled to google the posters name to verify if it isn't really James indulging himself in some astroturfing.
Having used Liferay for a significant amount of time I just simply cannot phantom someone having a high opinion of it.

Must be this stockholm syndrom thing or something..
Linus Sphinx
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 13, 2012 11:19 AM
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Linus Sphinx

Rank: Junior Member

Posts: 84

Join Date: August 12, 2010

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jelmer kuperus:
Liferay is a superb platform, but you need to spend time on it


Everytime i see a comment like this i am compelled to google the posters name to verify if it isn't really James indulging himself in some astroturfing.
Having used Liferay for a significant amount of time I just simply cannot phantom someone having a high opinion of it.

Must be this stockholm syndrom thing or something..


Sit down and write your own portal with all of the features of Liferay and get back to me on that would you please?
James Falkner
RE: Liferay sucks!!
September 13, 2012 11:46 AM
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James Falkner

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

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Join Date: September 17, 2010

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I believe this thread has run its course, so am closing it. I want to thank Bill his thoughts and everyone else for keeping things civil! Cheers!
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